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Thread: The fine line between benching and judging decisions

  1. #1
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    The fine line between benching and judging decisions

    At what point does distribution of gin rin scales move a koi into gin rin or out of that class and into another.

    I have seen a few examples were a koi with some gin rin is benched as a kawarimono & then the judges discuss whether or not the koi is in the correct class, as the koi has more than just a few stray scales.

  2. #2
    Daihonmei
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    Hi Bradley.

    Since ginrin is a guanine mutation, it has been around in Yamakoshi stock as random scales for many generations now. In fact the old ginrin, which is called Nigata gin, was either line bred FOR ( in order to intensify) or considered a FAULT in good koi as it was nothing more than a distraction to the non ginrin gosanke.
    The show rule is; ( as created in the 1970s and modified in 1997 due to the consistant presence of matsunosuke gin rips in many sanke winners)

    Two ROWS or more of ginrin scales arranged above the lateral line and running down the body. Not only starting at the shoulder but even beyond/down from the shoulder area.

    Please note that this is a benching and judging identification! The judges will then apply the IDEAL look for ginrin-- that includes location and number, uniformity, luster and neatness of the rows. JR

  3. #3
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Thanks JR,

    I have seen the 'spirit of the law' applied such that the same koi was awarded best in kawarimono one year & then best in gin rin B the following year.

  4. #4
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Hi Bradley.

    Since ginrin is a guanine mutation, it has been around in Yamakoshi stock as random scales for many generations now. In fact the old ginrin, which is called Nigata gin, was either line bred FOR ( in order to intensify) or considered a FAULT in good koi as it was nothing more than a distraction to the non ginrin gosanke.
    The show rule is; ( as created in the 1970s and modified in 1997 due to the consistant presence of matsunosuke gin rips in many sanke winners)

    Two ROWS or more of ginrin scales arranged above the lateral line and running down the body. Not only starting at the shoulder but even beyond/down from the shoulder area.

    Please note that this is a benching and judging identification! The judges will then apply the IDEAL look for ginrin-- that includes location and number, uniformity, luster and neatness of the rows. JR
    Are you sure that it is not Three rows? Typo perhaps?
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  5. #5
    Daihonmei
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    No two rows minimum. Three or more ideal. ZNA 1997 modification. Number, order and location in that order. JR

  6. #6
    Daihonmei
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    Steve I wanted to give you an explanation as to why the rule was redefined as two rows of scales.
    There was a killer sanshoku at one of the main judging training exercises in Japan in 1996. These exercises are purposely made very difficult to sharpen the ZNA judges eyes and their general understanding. In that training exercise, an old style Niigata ginrin sanshoku created a real uproar. That old style ginrin is random and scattered but plentiful! And the gene still shows up from time to time when individual Niigata oyagoi are paired. So the decision to tighten up the description from 'amount' to organized line was created. The matsunosuke 'rip' ( tail, flank) debate, years later, began the debate about two or three rows. And then discussions about location in addition. I believe that is the debate you are referring to? JR

  7. #7
    Tategoi
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    learned something new does this apply to AKCA along with ZNA... myself along with Stan and several others have been benching in Orlando and Westminister using 3 rows as the criteria........

  8. #8
    Daihonmei
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    I believe AKCA is three rows. In shows like you mention,the issue of row count tends to be a benching issue as the judges are looking for even non broken rows. So many ginrin look great at first glance but as you look down the body ( for as they swim away) you see major drops in gin within the rows. And although not a hard rule as the rows can start along the shoulder, to be competitive, you really need a fish with rows starting at the shoulder and flooding over the shoulder.
    Here is to me, the only thing that can beat a good gosanke in size one and two-- a great ginrin----
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The fine line between benching and judging decisions-ginrin-twin.jpg  

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