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Thread: Comments on this Kohaku

  1. #21
    Nisai
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    Apr 2010
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    Atlanta, GA
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    145
    I'll try to get a pic.
    By degrading, I mean its turning sort of lighter in color like orange and a bit spotty?, might be the word.

  2. #22
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
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    Davenport, Oklahoma
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    6,726
    Quote Originally Posted by poisonXvenom View Post
    hmmm.... It's only been 2 weeks and the red is quickly degrading... Could this be because before they sold this kohaku, they were bulking up on color feed? I'm confused, I've never seen any of my other koi's color depreciate so quickly....!
    Using Color enhancing feed for "sales prep" is fairly common, but it takes time for the effects to be diminished. It is fairly common among hobbyists to use color rich feeds to brighten beni prior to a show, remove all color enhancers 6 weeks before show time, and fast them for a week prior to the show.
    Building beni, cleansing shiroji, purging the gut.
    This approach generally leaves a Kohaku of high quality looking excellent at show time.

    Assuming that your water parameters are good it is possible that the "change, change, change" from the breeders water to the dealers water and now to your water (while good) may have caused accumulated stress resulting in rapid deterioration. 3 different water sources can all be "good" and still be sufficiently "different" to cause stress.

    That being said, knowing the full details about your water parameters is still important. Post up a full run of your water tests so we can take a look for obvious signs of stress inducers.
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  3. #23
    Honmei
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    2,744
    Deteriorating beni can be caused by a number of different factors or combinations of such. As Larry points out acculmulated stress in transport and changes in water is but one set of combined possibilities. The quality and thckness of the beni is yet another set of factors. In the original picture the beni has what I will refer to as "deep" scalloping. Scalloped kiwa is not a bad thing but when I see more pronoinced or depth of insertion on the scalloping I think of thin beni. It s extremely tough to evaluate koi from pictures. In the real world, "live" I would have bendt the koi slightly to see if there was white between the scales (on a small koi). On a larger koi I would watch it swim and see if there was white that showed between the scales when the koi moved and the scales slid.
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  4. #24
    Nisai
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
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    145
    gahh I give up on this kohauku... I just know it. It's going to fake out to all white... at this rate. The second hi spot is almost completely gone.... I'm never buying young koi again!

  5. #25
    Tategoi
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Halifax NS
    Posts
    372
    It can happen to older fish also and it doesn't have to be a kohaku either, sanke fall victim also

  6. #26
    Nisai
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
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    145

    Red face

    Here are the updated pics of him T.T
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Comments on this Kohaku-photo-1-.jpg   Comments on this Kohaku-photo.jpg  

  7. #27
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Dec 2003
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    Orlando, Florida
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    So, let's look back at the initial photos and ask if there are any clues that that fading Hi would be an issue so quickly. There are. It is always easier in hindsight, of course. On his right side we can see a maruzome type lower edge on the large shoulder step, with the red scales forming a deeply incised fringe, not a tight scalloped edge. Is something happening to create a false maruzome appearance? It can be seen that there are scales with white wrapping along the scale edges. Seeing this, the fish should be held and gently bent to see if white skin is visible between the red scales. If that was done to this fish, I think it likely that white would have been seen and it would be realized that the Hi was weak and at risk. What else? The small patch of Hi on the his right side has pink sashi, but look closely and you can see one of the scales that looks like sashi at first glance actually has surface pigment on part of the scale. The entire patch has maruzome-looking edges, but with deep incision of pale color along the edges of some of the lead scales. Again, a cause for examining closely. With so much happening along the edges of the steps, the question becomes whether the fish is still developing its pigment. I think the bending test would have told us otherwise, but even without bending the fish, we can see that he has a highly finished appearance. This contra-indicates a young fish with developing pigment.

    So, this koi becomes an example from which a better understanding of koi can be gained. Virtually all koi have this future ahead of them if they live long enough. Pigment that develops quickly also peaks early and deteriorates sooner that we generally prefer. Although if the goal with this fish had been to compete in a show on the day of purchase, he would have been exactly what was preferred at that time. Pigment that keeps a juvenile quality, develops slowly and peaks late will give a longer period of enjoyment, but can be too frustrating for many who do not want to wait for years. We cannot be absolutely certain pigment will ever fully develop. With some koi it does not. There is even the perpetual tategoi that can outlive the patience of a rock. An element of the mystique of koi is that they are not stable. Unlike all the sorts of minnows in the tropical fish trade, what is seen is not what there will be in the future. Koikeeping would not be so interesting if these fish were readily predictable. That lack of easy predictability is at the root of the frustration and disappointment all hobbyists suffer. And, it is at the root of the exhilaration experienced when everything comes together beautifully.
    Last edited by MikeM; 06-18-2010 at 09:19 AM. Reason: typo

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