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Thread: Swim bladder problems

  1. #21
    Tosai
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    Jul 2010
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    That doesn't help me.... Anyway, I stayed up the entire night with him and it's only a few more hours. I have no car (at all!), and I'm getting a test kit but I have to save him first. Considering that a test kit would take days to get here for not guaranteed helpful info, I haven't bought one because he can't last a shipping period. I live in a really isolated place(I don't think you understand just HOW isolated), and my friend's store is 15 miles away. Petsmart is 70 miles away, so with no car I can't get test kits very easily. I'm buying a treatment for costia and that's just going to be that. He can't live for much longer. Drop the test kit issue, as that's just not going to happen in time. And I didn't get a drop of help during the night even though I specifically asked for help only. And I'm not feeding him anything since everyone insists on it! And the QT is currently the best thing I have. You are concentrating on various things BESIDES the problem. What am I supposed to do? Put him in a magic infinite tub that pops out of midair? He will DIE in the main tank, as I've TRIED to re-enter him. Being "together" with the other koi won't help him, and it might make the other koi sick. I'm sorry to be harsh, but you guys are asking for stuff that can't happen with my resources and time. I'm not going to post again until he gets better or worse.

  2. #22
    Jumbo RobF's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
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    Zoran there is only so much you or anyone can do for your ailing koi. Doing too much is probably the biggest killer of koi, with doing too little only being second. Your circumstances being what they are: just keep him in good water, aerate it as best as you can, don’t feed him, don’t treat him with chemicals, leave him alone to minimize stress, and don’t stress yourself out, tell us what happens in a week. Good luck.

  3. #23
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
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    Davenport, Oklahoma
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    Fine.
    You can't do anything but assume that your water is bad, and do steady water changes throughout the day. The fact that you haven't had ammonia issues in a long time is meaningless. Something has changed, and because you don't have the minimal testing equipment to check the water with you simply don't know what it is. Strip tests are about as close to worthless as possible, so running out of them doesn't really change anything. As poorly as they work you didn't really know much with them either.

    You need to be certain that the water contains no chlorine or you'll just kill it anyway. You need to maintain a .3 salinity with each water change just to reduce osmotic stress as much as possible, and you need to make certain that the water is well filtered and aerated at all times. Undergravel filters for Koi are the next best thing to nothing, so don't make any assumptions about how good or bad the water is in that tank either. It is not at all uncommon for 1 fish to become sick while the others appear "fine". In most ponds there is always 1 fish that reacts to water problems before the others do. In your case, the sick one is your "canary in the coal mine" and he's fallen off his perch from something in the water going south and exposing him to an environment that weakened him.

    There.
    Now you have some more worthless advice that does not help you that you can ignore while your fish dies because you refuse to listen to anyone who can't "fix" your fish without fixing your problem.
    Your problem is stubbornness, and I have no cure for that.
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  4. #24
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    West Virginia, USA
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    253
    Zoran, I do not have time to address the issues you responded with in your last reply, but please be aware if the fish does have a costia infection going on that, the outbreak can explode on a sick fish. IOW, The costia multiply rapidly on a sick fish....and if fish are in a healthy environment, costia is not usually a problem. Have you introduced new fish lately that would have brought them into your tank?
    A treatment can push a fish in the condition you have been describing over the edge.....especially if you use a formalin/malachite mixture with salt already in the water and especially if there is not enough oxygen. Temperature variations of more than 3 degrees can also add stress. Couple that with low oxygen in your well water...........you should try to aerate the tap water and have it as close to the temperature that the fish is in now.
    Even if you do pull him through....I'd be working on that tank....sorry to bring it up, but it truly sound as if this was your main problem.....water quality usually is. Papabear is right....koi are like people and the weak ones will get sick first.

  5. #25
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    May 2005
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    Hello Larry, Cindy, Ruth, et al . . .

    At this point in time I think we need to consider the probability that Zoran is an attention seeking virtual Munchausen by proxy Troll.

    No location, no photos, no camera, no attempt to borrow one, no attempt to obtain a larger tank, no test kit, no attempt to obtain one, no money, an 'expert' but nameless pet store friend, no substantive responses to any of our suggestions other than more excuses . . . and now it's all our fault for not helping?

    Let's stop playing their game and move on, OK?

  6. #26
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoiCop View Post
    Hello Larry, Cindy, Ruth, et al . . .

    At this point in time I think we need to consider the probability that Zoran is an attention seeking virtual Munchausen by proxy Troll.

    No location, no photos, no camera, no attempt to borrow one, no attempt to obtain a larger tank, no test kit, no attempt to obtain one, no money, an 'expert' but nameless pet store friend, no substantive responses to any of our suggestions other than more excuses . . . and now it's all our fault for not helping?

    Let's stop playing their game and move on, OK?
    I agree completely. Zoran is probably a troll and is only here to get us worked up. We have all done what we could, offered correct and sound advise. So if Zoran's problem is real (which I really doubt), there is nothing more we can do. We have no magical cure for a fish who's owner is unwilling/unable to do anything we suggest.

  7. #27
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    Oct 2004
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    Don, I just opened this thread and thought that after the first couple of posts.

    Move on. If the fish was doing everything they said and all those treatments were given, it would have died already.

  8. #28
    Tosai
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    14
    What! Just because I have I don't have a camera makes me a attention seeker? Fine, I'll find my camera cables. I'm not looking for attention. I have new symptoms to report though. He has blood in his stool ( I think). I will attempt to get my camera up and running tonight. I'm just trying to find help for my koi, and I'm not ignoring you. I've stopped feeding him, and he's ok so far. I will buy a test kit ASAP, even though I don't think it will do much good. What should I take pictures of, or more accurately, what do you want to see of him? If no one will believe I'm not looking for attention, then I'll find it out myself. How am I supposed to get a larger tank all of a sudden? I can't believe I'm hearing this. I apologize if I made it seem like I wasn't willing to do anything, it's just I don't have much resources. I will do water changes more often. I'll see if Beth (the apparently mysterious "friend") can do something. She may have a larger tank I can borrow or something. I'm calling some national vet 800 numbers. My neighbor might have a digital camera I can borrow, will ask today.

  9. #29
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    If you are really serious about trying to save this fish and wanting learn, let’s see if you can follow the excellent advice you’ve already been given.

    You don’t need a Vet and stop listening to the pet shop owner. I’m sure she has good intentions but she isn’t as knowledgeable about koi as the people here. Think about it. Has she raised koi to 25-30+” from a 3-4” fish? Has she taken classes specifically oriented towards keeping koi? Has she kept the same koi for over 5 years and kept it healthy the entire time?

    I seriously doubt the fish has Costia or it would already be dead. You’re dealing with water quality issues. BTW, if there was a brown spot on the gill lamellae, it won’t disappear overnight. You didn’t have ammonia problems before because the fish wasn’t as big. The larger the fish grows, the more water quality problems you’re going to have. Koi are schooling fish, they don’t do well alone.

    There has to be some container around your house that you can use that holds at least 100-200 gallons. Look around and get creative. Clean garbage cans, plastic storage bins, stock tanks, etc. Call someone you know for help. If you live in farm country, ask a neighbor if they have an old watering trough. You can add your airstone from the aquarium and do water changes every day. Use aerated well water close to the same temp as what’s in the container you have the fish in for the water changes. Find the container, put the fish in and don’t move him again. Cover the container. Moving koi or just netting them is very stressful.

    Stop doing treatments. Shotgun treatments, treating without knowing what’s wrong, will kill the fish faster than doing nothing. You can keep .3% salt in the tank but you’ll have to replace it with each water change. Use the Solar salt in the blue bag from Lowes or HD. 1 lb. per 100 gallons divided into thirds over a 3 day period. When you do the water changes, you’re going to have to adjust the amount of salt you add to the water because there will already be salt in the tank.

    We need pics of the fish and exact numbers on at least pH, ammonia, NitrItes and NitrAtes. If you have a high pH and you have ammonia, the ammonia becomes more toxic.

    You said you don’t have a car. How do you get to work, the grocery, etc. Use that same avenue to get the few things you need to help this fish.



    Unless people see that you're making an effort to follow instructions, they're not going to continue trying to help you.
    The views expressed above are my own personal views and, as such, do not necessarily reflect the views of the AKCA or the KHA program.
    SANDY

  10. #30
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    West Virginia, USA
    Posts
    253
    What's the matter Don? Trolls are cute.

    Seriously Zoran - I do feel bad that this is working out the way it has for you. I don't like to sound call callous, but if you don't have a lot of resorces I'm not sure it would be worth calling a vet. Blood in the stool along with everything else sounds like bacterial infection. Does the fish seem bloated? If this is the case, it would be very expensive for the vet to come and inject and from what you've told us, I'm wondering if you would want to spend the money in order to save such a sick fish - especially when you don't have an adequate place to keep him. You not only need a bigger tank - you also need a filter. It sounds like you have a lot going on with your move coming up.

    And know....it is almost impossible to diagnose over the phone or internet......water tests need to be taken as well as scrapes and scoping.

    Most of us here have lost fish in the beginning and that is simply because the pet shops and home & garden centers led us to believe that koi could be kept in such small tanks or pools without adequate filtration. We soon found out differently. I have kept koi in a 75gal aquarium.....but it just shouldn't be done. I didn't think we'd ever spend the amount of money that we have when we first got our Koi. But if you truly want to keep Koi, you should wait a while until after your move to build a pond. Most likely the idea you have now, is no where close to even what the bare minimum should be. Join a club......we travel about 2hours for ours and I learned most of the things that I do know through seminars, wet labs and taking care of my own and other fish......not on the internet.

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