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Thread: Word on the Street: $75-$85 phoam phraxionator

  1. #21
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 View Post
    I'm Sold !

    I've had one of these Damn Thing on my pond all summer and can't believe the stuff that is removed .

    I'll let everyone figure which is my pond water & which is what the foam looks like after it breaks down .
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzy View Post
    Hey guys,

    How about getting a filtration system which has no need for all this costly and superfluous BS?

    Just a thought...
    Quote Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 View Post
    Some think it will .

    I posted that photo earlier of my pond water and also what is removed from that pond water . I never thought I'd get that oil looking liquid out of clear pond water .

    But I did !
    Suzy,
    I hope you hit the pause button to consider the subject for a moment or two before you launch.
    The clear water Troy posted in his photo is impeccably well filtered and he has no problems with his pond. He's had a very healthy pond for a very long time WITHOUT using a Foam Fractionator of any kind and his water has looked and tested wonderfully without one.
    Yet the fact remains that DOC'S still accumulated in sufficient quantities to produce the dark liquid in the other jar. DISSOLVED ORGANIC COMPOUNDS are not something that his filter FAILED to process out of the water. They are quite literally IMMUNE from removal via biofiltration processes, even with eric.
    No amount of brushes, fibrous mats, settlement chambers, etc... in the world can remove Oily Proteins that are dissolved into solution. The autotrophs and heterotrophs that dwell within a bacterial colony don't touch them. Many a happy ponder with great looking, perfect testing water has installed a small fractionator and much to their utter amazement produced copious amounts of foam.
    Their presence isn't necessarily noticeable in the water, but not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there. I can't see chlorine in my tap water, but I know if I don't deal with the reality of its presence my fish will live (or die) to regret it. DOC's are not a life or death issue like chlorine, but they are a contaminant that can reduce their quality of life nonetheless.

    I'm going to issue you a very simple (and inexpensive) challenge.

    One year from now your pond will be happily complete, your filtration very well established, and your pond should be quite stable and mature. With eric running at no doubt peak performance and your water looking pristine as you follow the simple routine Peter has prescribed for you, install one of these cheap and easy fractionators on the pond. Its easy enough to do and if you can afford to be a Koi nut like the rest of us you can afford the modest euro's it will cost. After its been up and running for a few days send us a picture of the foam discharge port and THEN you'll be qualified to comment on one. You'll be forgiven for the innocent error of criticizing that about which you have no knowledge. It is the price we all must pay for inexperience
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  2. #22
    Oyagoi gcuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzy View Post
    Is that so? And you can also purchase a great Koi for peanuts, right?

    You have been trying to be nasty, and I am being realistic. I've also been doing my homework and cannot fathom why you accuse me of dropping "ERIC bombs?" Just tell me to shut up and not come back if you prefer.

    A decent filtration system should suffice to itself. The rest is pure BS.
    How much did it cost you? Including labour, of course?
    No, generally speaking, a great koi cannot be purchased for peanuts. Nor can a great koi be purchased by someone in my income bracket. But for a few totes of pistachios one can purchase a decent koi...

    Suzy, you're quite wrong. There are plenty of places you can learn about DOC's and their removal. Hardly BS. Maybe do some more homework? You should know, or at least get the idea that I'm not down on your filter selection. But even ERIC can't do everything.

    I'm not going to drag this thread off track with my filters and their costs.

    Grant

  3. #23
    Jumbo
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    my built mine too

    minor differences. I used 4" pipe and 2" return. I use existing pump return. Old pump was 1/3 horse Performance Artesian, which died last month. New pump is 1/4H Artesian 49C. Works great. I used to have an airlifted version. The pump version is more stable.

    My pond has full sun exposure. 6500g in total, 40+ koi, from 12" to 30" of mutts. (sorry, koi keep spawning...). before installing this boy, I do 2X15% water changge weekly, and pond was filled with algea of all kind, including string algae. Now, 15% water change every other week, no string algae. beside having too much junk in settling tank, my pond is doing way better than before.

    stan

  4. #24
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    Larry & Grant , I'll try once or twice to teach/help someone , then after that they're on their own !

    Don , Thanks for digging that up , Good Stuff .

    I wouldn't post a word about this Filter if Ethan was out trying to make a Buck from doing it , But he's not . I believe a couple hobbyist that lacked DIY Skills asked him to build one for them and maybe passed a couple dollars his way , but he hasn't started a Business to my knowledge .

    I've had three local club members see my filter in action and have asked me how to build or I've built one for them (At no profit) . All three have come back with something like "I can't believe this thing" , etc..

    Here's one of those members results after 2 1/2 days . We built a 6" PP Tower for him with about 2,000 GPH running through it .


    By the way , That's a 30 Gallon Tote .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Word on the Street:  - phoam phraxionator-002.jpg  
    President : GLK&GS
    Officer : NMZNA
    Certified Judge : AKJA

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
    Suzy,
    I hope you hit the pause button to consider the subject for a moment or two before you launch.
    The clear water Troy posted in his photo is impeccably well filtered and he has no problems with his pond. He's had a very healthy pond for a very long time WITHOUT using a Foam Fractionator of any kind and his water has looked and tested wonderfully without one.
    Yet the fact remains that DOC'S still accumulated in sufficient quantities to produce the dark liquid in the other jar. DISSOLVED ORGANIC COMPOUNDS are not something that his filter FAILED to process out of the water. They are quite literally IMMUNE from removal via biofiltration processes, even with eric.
    No amount of brushes, fibrous mats, settlement chambers, etc... in the world can remove Oily Proteins that are dissolved into solution. The autotrophs and heterotrophs that dwell within a bacterial colony don't touch them. Many a happy ponder with great looking, perfect testing water has installed a small fractionator and much to their utter amazement produced copious amounts of foam.
    Their presence isn't necessarily noticeable in the water, but not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there. I can't see chlorine in my tap water, but I know if I don't deal with the reality of its presence my fish will live (or die) to regret it. DOC's are not a life or death issue like chlorine, but they are a contaminant that can reduce their quality of life nonetheless.

    I'm going to issue you a very simple (and inexpensive) challenge.

    One year from now your pond will be happily complete, your filtration very well established, and your pond should be quite stable and mature. With eric running at no doubt peak performance and your water looking pristine as you follow the simple routine Peter has prescribed for you, install one of these cheap and easy fractionators on the pond. Its easy enough to do and if you can afford to be a Koi nut like the rest of us you can afford the modest euro's it will cost. After its been up and running for a few days send us a picture of the foam discharge port and THEN you'll be qualified to comment on one. You'll be forgiven for the innocent error of criticizing that about which you have no knowledge. It is the price we all must pay for inexperience
    Hi, Larry,

    I at last phound the pause button! Phew have done this bephore.
    Phunny how I pheel about all this. Philtration is phar more complicated than
    I phirst thought. Phor a start, phill me in on what is so phearphul about phoam in the phirst place. I don't want to phight with you, Larry, so iph you want me to phind a phractionator, pheel phree to say so. I'm phine with
    any phree advice.

    Your phriend, Suzy

  6. #26
    Oyagoi Ethan25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 View Post

    I've had three local club members see my filter in action and have asked me how to build or I've built one for them (At no profit) . All three have come back with something like "I can't believe this thing" , etc..

    Here's one of those members results after 2 1/2 days . We built a 6" PP Tower for him with about 2,000 GPH running through it .


    By the way , That's a 30 Gallon Tote .
    geez, Troy, doesn't look like it's doin' much.....


    :wink:


    Nice
    to see it's doing the job. There are some points that these phraxionators will "catch up" with the docs depending on feeding and pond size with turnover. I'll have a day or two with nothing, then 2 days with a ton of phoam. Windy days will bring more docs the next day, as debris (dust) blows into the pond....etc....

    Either way, for $75-$175 depending on pond size, if you are in care of high quality nishikigoi, it's a technology that really shouldn't be overlooked.
    The views I have are completely representative of who I am, and may/may not be representative of clubs I may or may not be a part of.

  7. #27
    Tategoi Peppy's Avatar
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    Ethan, thanks for posting and sharing the directions and video link so everyone can have access to your beautiful and simple design. I'm sorry your good intentions for this thread got kind of messed up. I'm sold. I was sold from the beginning. My koi aren't high quality but they deserve good water too!

    Because this was scary:

    There these tiny components gather and foam ‘rafts’ of organic and vitamin rich organic material. This in turn attracts free swimming heterotrophic species called ‘wolf packs’ that attack the nutrient source and perform the first step of biological decay- mineralization. This in term feeds protozoa that fed on those bacteria. These all becomes part of the general biomass (along with fish and biofilter bacteria) that is pulling down water quality and reducing oxygen and increasing other species of nitrogenous waste materials and gases. And as will all pollution factors in the water, depending on extent, these things will cause disease or infestation or simply reduce the growth of koi in both size and color development.

  8. #28
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    I have used a foam fractionator for almost 20 years.

    August 26th I was working in the garage and took the attached photos.

    My foam fractionator's bubbles are powered by a spa jet.

    I am in the process of building one like Ethans.

    I have collected some 4 inch fittings and have a section of 4 inch and 6 inch PVC pipe.

    I am still getting ideas.

    I have also attached a picture of the original spa jet powered foam frationator drawing from the April 1992 issue of Aquarium Fish Magazine that I used for the idea on how to construct my first foam fractionator.

    For those of you that are interested, the following is the parts list from Steve Meyer's article on building a foam fractionator.

    Item Part Description
    A 3" ABS pipe x 8"
    B 3" x 1.5" ABS reducer
    C 3" x 1.5" ABS sanitary T*
    D 3" ABS pipe x 3"
    E 3" x 1.5" ABS reducer
    F 1.5" ABS 900 street elbow
    G 1.5" ABS 90" street elbow
    H 1.5" ABS pipe x 15"
    1 1.5" ABS 90" elbow
    J 1.5" ABS return pipe to pond
    K 1.5" slip x 1" slip ABS coupler
    L 1" PVC LASCO or Anzen Prod. #7 pool jet
    M 3/4" PVC pipe x 24"
    N 1.5" PVC ball or gate valve
    0 1.5" ABS or PVC inlet pipe from pump
    P 1.5" ABS pipe x various lengths (ie: 4", 6", 10")**
    Q 1.5" ABS 45" elbow

    * Note: if using a sanitary T with a 45° 1.5" side inlet, make sure inlet is facing down.
    ** no glue, must experiment for optimum performance of shampoo-like bubbles.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Word on the Street:  - phoam phraxionator-ff_1663.jpg   Word on the Street:  - phoam phraxionator-ff_1664.jpg   Word on the Street:  - phoam phraxionator-foam1.jpg  

  9. #29
    Oyagoi Ethan25's Avatar
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    A few
    comments on how my unit works:

    Water is drawn from a pump, that is relatively clean (free of solids).

    They reason one
    does not want to have solids is because you do not want a buildup of organics on the bioballs or biobarrels in the tower as they will not "cut" the water as well.

    Water is pumped to the top of the tower, and splashes down through the bioballs, 5-6 feet down, making thousands of bubbles. As those bubbles collect at the bottom of the unit, the pipe goes horiOntal. This horizontal pipe has between 5-7 gallons of space with a 6" PVC unit. As the water goes into this chamber, the bubbles rise along with gravity. Since the water level in the unit is just into the "upper" part of the tee, they come
    out.

    The ball valve puts back pressure on the water in the bottom chamber, allowing you to have the right height of water in that chamber. A 90 degree elbow in the tee allows you to direct the phoam away from the unit.

    My unit does not skim the foam out like others. It essentially gives the bubbles 10-15 seconds of "dwell time", similar to a settlement chamber, allowing them to all rise out and be forced out the unit.

  10. #30
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan25 View Post
    A few
    comments on how my unit works:

    Water is drawn from a pump, that is relatively clean (free of solids).

    They reason one
    does not want to have solids is because you do not want a buildup of organics on the bioballs or biobarrels in the tower as they will not "cut" the water as well.

    Water is pumped to the top of the tower, and splashes down through the bioballs, 5-6 feet down, making thousands of bubbles. As those bubbles collect at the bottom of the unit, the pipe goes horiOntal. This horizontal pipe has between 5-7 gallons of space with a 6" PVC unit. As the water goes into this chamber, the bubbles rise along with gravity. Since the water level in the unit is just into the "upper" part of the tee, they come
    out.

    The ball valve puts back pressure on the water in the bottom chamber, allowing you to have the right height of water in that chamber. A 90 degree elbow in the tee allows you to direct the phoam away from the unit.

    My unit does not skim the foam out like others. It essentially gives the bubbles 10-15 seconds of "dwell time", similar to a settlement chamber, allowing them to all rise out and be forced out the unit.
    What I like about yours is no back pressure to pump except for pump "head" height and you get a mini shower filter.
    :-)

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