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Thread: Anyone ever hear of "moneysaver" pumps?

  1. #51
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard and please don't apologize for being a "newbie". From the looks of things you've got your head screwed on straight and are taking some positive steps in the right direction already

    It is worth investigating and how this particular mfg measures up is yet to be seen. Hopefully they'll provide some specific details on measured performance curves and costs to help you make a decision that is fact driven instead of hype driven.

  2. #52
    Oyagoi woodyaht's Avatar
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    Welcome Hewho, as long as you have Cindy close by, you won't go wrong.

    Personally I will re-stress not using just one pump. Sure enough when you go out of town, that single pump will fail = all fish dead.

    I'd really suggest a minimum of 2 pumps on a 6-10,000 pond. Put the pumps on separate circuit breakers, as well as separate GFI's. That way you have the least amount of exposure to a system failure. I keep a third pump on the shelf, just in case one fails. Because sure enough when one fails and you need to send it in for repairs, they are closed for the holidays, parts are on backorder, etc........... Murphey's Law

    If this single variable speed pump saves you $5-10-20 a month, what's the savings if the pump fails while your gone, and all your fish die. Let's say you spent $1000 for your fish, $300yr on food, and the cost of your attachment to your fish. Takes quite while to re-coup your money.

    If you really want to go super efficient, design your pond around a "Airlift" system. Cindy can explian that further to you.

    My QT tank is run soley on a airlift, skimmer/UV included. I get about 2000-2500GPH for 40watts of energy consumption. There isn't a electric pump in the world that can come close to that.

    Again...... Welcome. If Cindy can't answer a question feel free to ask us here, and any of us "self proclaimed" experts will make sure you're more confused than when you started.
    “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed” Adolf Hitler


    Chris~

  3. #53
    Oyagoi woodyaht's Avatar
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    Something more to discuss.

    I was on a pond web page, and a flash advertisement came up for Sequence "Sequel" pumps, never heard of that line.

    Clicked on it and low and behold:

    MDM Incorporated - King Fish

    MDM Incorporated

    That being said, in glancing through the numbers, I can see many single phase pumps that are more efficient for the same flow just off the top of my head..............

  4. #54
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyaht View Post
    My QT tank is run soley on a airlift, skimmer/UV included. I get about 2000-2500GPH for 40watts of energy consumption. There isn't a electric pump in the world that can come close to that.
    Have you posted or can you post pictures and more information on your QT tank airlift setup?

  5. #55
    Oyagoi woodyaht's Avatar
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    You have to be a member and signed in to see the pics:

    Woodyaht's Energy Efficent Air Lift Qt Tank - KoiShack

  6. #56
    Tategoi
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    We’re all fools! Have you ever seen someone go manic trying to decide what koi food was best for the koi while eating at McDonalds? Stick around.

    Many of us want to install a variable speed pump for $I000 but can’t afford to purchase a suitable scope or ORP meter and properly selected single speed pump. Together, they all can be purchased for less than the pump and are much more valuable to keeping koi.

    Don’t decide on a pump until you have the filter system finalized. You are much more likely to select a proper but efficient pump. You can come back here for help in doing that. I don’t spend a lot of time on forums any more but there are some here and on other forums that can help. Look for names like Steve Childers, Kent Wallace and others who are often commenting on the same strings as they are.

    When designing your next skimmer, install a 4” line back to the pump area. Many folks use 2” because ‘everybody does it’ and end up with a skimmer that won’t properly share or won’t accommodate a pump without cavitation. A professional pond builder that doesn’t have a clue to pumping practices installed a 2” skimmer line with a ¼ hp pump, in the San Jose area. Not knowing how to correct the problem they just installed a second ¼ hp pump in parallel. Cavitation will shorten the life of that pump.

    Since it’s a skimmer line there will be very little waste depositing in the 4” line and it can even be a gravity flow line, if you like.

    Plan to install a sieve or circular sump (Vortex) before your pump. The sieve is preferable if you plan to run the skimmer to the same pump as the BD. The sieve will trap floating waste. Either of those will make removing fines much easier.

    Few people in the hobby like the old hour glass shaped Bubble bead filter but that’s because few know how to maintain them. I dump mine every day or two while I’m feeding the koi. They are superior to the conventional bead filters and simpeler.

    You might look into a totally gravity flow system, or near to it. There are new pumping processes coming along to help with energy conservation that must have very low heads to do their best.

    Consider joining a local koi club; there’s lots of good help there. The web sites of the two in SC are www.charlestonshowaclub.org and www.sckwgs.com. Often there are members that would like to sell a filter or pump suitable to your needs, but cheap. Almost everything I have I purchased used or at auction. Like my $2800 Nikon microscope for $250.

  7. #57
    Tategoi hewhoisatpeace's Avatar
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    I do plan to install a sieve prior to my pump, and to insure that the new pump is gravity fed as well. I have already in the pond setup a short stream and waterfall to a pool of about 400g, second waterfall to main pond. For this reason, an airlift alone cannot give me the lift I desire. I am working with an idea for an airlift equipped QT tank, as well as an airlift assisted fractionator tower, all below stock tank water level.

    Thanks for the warm welcomes, I'm not apologizing for being new. Just explaining why I might be a pain in the arse at times. In any case, the "money saver" pump was merely an item of curiosity. Looking into it began my investigation of 3-phase pumps and VFD use as a "tuning" agent as well as a phase convertor. The Kingfish pump seems to have beat my reasoning here, but I wonder if I can do better than they did using a single speed 240V Lim pump, or a similar high quality pump. I have heard some very useful information here already, I've lurked on this board learning of some of the tech I plan to implement this winter.

    Thanks for the knowledgeable and speedy responses to Cindy's original question. Next time I'll know to talk to her, but also to come here for advice.

  8. #58
    Oyagoi woodyaht's Avatar
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    I wouldn't worry to much about the need to use a 240V pump, unless you already have 240V at your pond site already. The energy savings by going with 240V is pretty minute.

    There are probably twenty 120V pumps available to every 240V pump available giving you a much better advantage of finding a very effieicent pump for your needs. Although a lot 120V pumps can be rewired to run off 240V if you need to go that route.

    You can google these names and search all the specs and see what may work for you.

    Advantage Evolution Pumps
    Dolphin Pumps
    Easy Pro Pumps
    Performance Pro Pumps
    Sequence Pumps
    Superfalls Pumps
    W Lim Pumps

    I am sure that there is more, but that's a few off the top of my head.

  9. #59
    Oyagoi woodyaht's Avatar
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    You probably already know this but I'll add it just in case.

    Most of our homes have 3 wires coming in from the utility company, 2 hot wires (legs), and a nuetral, your ground is normally a ground rod at the base of your electrical panel.

    The 2 hot legs coming in contain 110-120V each (115V average). When you connect a 110-120V pump, you are using one leg of your service. When you connect a 220-240V pump to your service you are using both legs of your service 110-120V X 2.

    If you take a 115/230V (the average) motor and wire it for 115V we'll say the motor uses 10A, when you wire the same motor to 230V you are splitting the amperage draw between your 2 service legs drawing 5A from each. When you look at the data plate attached to most motors you'll normally see as a example: Volts = 115/230 Amerage = 10/5.

    The only real savings which is so minute is the heat generated in the wires going to your pump. If you use 12ga (good for 20A) wire to supply your pump and you connect a 15A - 115V load you are at the upper limit of your wires which creates heat in the wires. If you change your pump to 230V, you split that load between 2 sets of 12ga wires, 7.5 per set and that creates less heat in the wires. Heat created = energy lost. The heat differential is very minute though.

    The other savings with 230V motors is easier start up, using less energy. But since our pumps run 24/7 that really isn't a issue either.

  10. #60
    Tategoi hewhoisatpeace's Avatar
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    I appreciate and understand the information you've provided me, thanks for sticking with the problem. I am now in experimental mode, to see what kind of DIY masterpiece I might create. If it won't work, I'll still have a great pump, so, why not?

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