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Thread: grading culling

  1. #1
    Nisai
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    grading culling

    i was wondering what make a koi a grade and c grade i know about conformation .any information about culling young koi any varieties as there is not much information on this thank you.

  2. #2
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
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    The grades are sort of randomly assigned by the dealer. He keeps what he likes, discards or sells cheap the ones he does not like or sees no potential in. There isn't really a list of what makes a fish good and what makes a fish poor quality, you just have to listen and learn this for yourself. There are hundred and hundreds of threads where quality is discussed. Also look for the threads where someone is asking an opinion about a fish they own...thats a good way to learn. There are also dozens of really good books out there.

  3. #3
    Nisai
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    okay but when culling young fry what do you keep when there young i know you cull deformed fish but like in the example of showas you keep the black ones

  4. #4
    Oyagoi
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree.10 View Post
    okay but when culling young fry what do you keep when there young i know you cull deformed fish but like in the example of showas you keep the black ones
    I began to understand this process after about three years of doing it with a Japanese breeder. It is not something you can tell somebody how to do, it is something that must be shown.

    As with your example of showa, the "young ones" are less than 1 mm long and must be handled with special machinery to accomplish the task.

    Your best bet is to find a breeder who will show you and spend time with them during sembetsu (sorting), I have taught several folks, but it takes a lot of time and commitment.

    Brett

  5. #5
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    The first question after culling deformities: What is your goal? If you are breeding for Yamabuki, you would cull all that do not have high shine and those that are orange. Without a goal, you cannot have a guideline to judge against. If the goal is simply 'some pretty fish', then cull all you do not consider pretty. Sure, you will cull some that could turn out pretty later, but nobody has the space to do that. How much space do you have? If you have a 5,000 gallon pond devoted to rearing fry, after a couple of months you would want the number culled down to maybe 500. After 6 months, maybe 100 or so. Every fish kept longer than necessary uses resources better expended on the few that you keep at the end of the process. A hobbyist who after a year ends up with a dozen that are considered worth the pond space to keep another year has been successful by their own light.... even if none would be kept by somebody else.

  6. #6
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree.10 View Post
    okay but when culling young fry what do you keep when there young i know you cull deformed fish but like in the example of showas you keep the black ones
    It depends on the Koi variety and experience Koi breeders know what to look for.

    For us novices, there are very simplistic guidelines like when breeding Showas, you keep the black ones, when breeding Kohaku, you cull the black ones, etc.

    The thing to remember is you can't keep them all AND the more you cull, the better chance the remaining fry have for growing and surviving.

  7. #7
    Nisai
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    well i have a 82000 gallon pond (mud) a separate tunnel pond of 16000 gallons two 1500 gallon aquaculture tanks and 1 or 2 350 gallon water troughs and a 130 gallon aquarium for spawning so i have more than enough space.i just need information on how to cull the fish any varieties cause i have a number of different types you know!


    (all uk gallons)

  8. #8
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Nice to get Brett's input. Someone you can respect because of his knowledge.....

    one thing I see happening in the hobby/business that I love....both bonsai and koi, there are apprentices that are given room and board and small stipend and allowed to work their tail off with an accomplished master. One young american wrote mr Kimura every month for a year and a half before it was accepted to learn at the feet of the bonsai master. 6 years later he has moved to portland oregon and begun his own business. And yes there are americans in japan studying koi.

    there are some very excellent american breeders to contact and spend time with.

    One thing to learn is about how to prepare a mud pond to receive fry. Even that has specific dos and don'ts.
    Dick Benbow

  9. #9
    Nisai
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    there are no koi breeders in my country as i live in ireland.i usually buy in my koi grow them on and sell them but i am trying to give breeding a shot as i have mature koi ready to go another thing i was wondering how long you can keep the eggs out of the water when moving them.how would you prepare the mud pond fill it a month before and put in chicken manure to culture daphnia

  10. #10
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree.10 View Post
    there are no koi breeders in my country as i live in ireland.i usually buy in my koi grow them on and sell them but i am trying to give breeding a shot as i have mature koi ready to go another thing i was wondering how long you can keep the eggs out of the water when moving them.how would you prepare the mud pond fill it a month before and put in chicken manure to culture daphnia
    Sounds like you have everything needed... except good breeding stock.

    My advice is to go ahead and breed what you got to get a better handle on breeding Koi.

    Once you get some breeding experience, then if you are still motivated, import some high quality breeding stock.

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