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Thread: Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?

  1. #41
    Daihonmei
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    Not Kanoko! Kanoko is a true genetic expression and therefore a true pattern type. It is also a dorsal orienated. As you know, quite rare and tends to be unstable with age. But good ones are truly beautiful.

    All genetic coded patterns are a matter of expression. And as koi, being living things, pass thru ' childhood', teen years, young adult and full adult periods, the genes switch on and off and express color in different ways.

    The classic example of this is the sumi cells in a black based koi. It is expressed early in life ( as a defense trigger in fry) and regresses as lecuism develops and onlt later returns as the fish enters another stage of life ( hormones and domino triggers within the endocrine system).

    In the end, even good genes might show fading based on growth rates and endocrine triggers. But the trend should be either towards layering or in other lines, thickening. JR

  2. #42
    Jumbo
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    Happy New Year, Jim.

    the showa as if kanoko condition beni in the last picture is, as you said, not a Kanoko showa.()  it was a sort of temporarily condition due to poor water quality w/high water temperature (IMO) during the growout experiment at that time. In fact, interestingly the beni was being filled /tighten /recovered fairly well (below picture) within one month or two after I moved the fish into the cooler & better water quality of my outside pond in spring...

    I know a Japanese breeder who breeds Kanoko kawari. he said that, as far as I know, I am only one breeder who is trying to produce kanoko purposely in Japan... Yes, his oyagoi are Kanoko, of course, and are still maintain Kanoko-han neat even they are Jumbo size.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-showa.jpg   Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-k1.jpg   Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #43
    Daihonmei
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    Happy New Year to you my friend! Yep, I saw a moment for some education for the readers. The difference between true genetic pattern and changing/transitional pattern. Good stuff.

    I've seen kanoko in ( if we describe it as color cells and not sumi. Sumi being kagi) lateral and dorsal pattern. That leaves wrapped pattern - where I can't recall ever seeing kanoko either in real life or in pictures? JR

  4. #44
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kindai View Post
    It's pale yellow/orange, there is no clear while line between scales (so far).

    If the beni holds for a few more months, I guess it may be like the beni on second picture but not like the kanoko conditon of last pic....
    Excellent. Pale yellow/orange is just fine with me at this age. I get leery of red tones on so small a fish.

  5. #45
    Daihonmei
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    For sure deep red in a juvenile koi is a sign of early maturity. BUT to be really fair and accurate, it is the tone of the red that is most important. I say that for two reasons;

    1) some lines simply get darker ( intensity of beni cell concentration increases with age). So looking for hoshi is a useless ritual in those lines

    2) the color red or beni is made up of a mixture of cells in many cases. orange/orange, orange/red, orange/ yellow ( the most desirable in the popular lines in the minds of the west), Orange/pink, red/ red, red/orange red/purple, purple/red.

    It is the purple red genetic combo that we are all attracted to as beginners and one that we all learn to avoid as intermediate hobbyists! It is deep, sexy and unreal in a fry/sub adult. And ironcally, at that age looks alot like the orange/red we see on seven year old adult winners in the magazines. But the devil is in the details and since koi are living, changing things, they go through stages of maturation and what starts out as one thing often looks entirely different at the end. Red/purple genetics does NOT age well! It becomes progressively more 'purple' and also more dull with age.

    A lot of experts will tell you to stay with one line until you become an expert on the development and variations of that line. Not a bad idea. If that is the case for you, know that there are two funadmental looks for kohaku-- the 'thickening' of orange/orange or orange/red TO a strong deep orange red adult. And the radiating beni born of hoshi beno growth of orange/yellow or orange/pink. In this style you will also see the fish move to a deep orange or pink red and some find this very very beautiful. JR

  6. #46
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Nice, JR. Good concepts to think about.

  7. #47
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    Junbo Tosai

    It was a good time to move them out from my small aquarium to outside pond as spring comes. so, I took pictures again at the end of March.



    Kohaku 42cm/16.5"

    Showa (L) 41cm/16" (dangerous!! )

    Showa (S) 36cm/14"



    the kohaku is about 10 month old and the showa are 7 month old.... male or female?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-100-0001.jpg   Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-100-0002.jpg   Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-100-0003.jpg   Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-100-0004.jpg   Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-100-0005.jpg  

    Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-100-0006.jpg   Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-100-0007.jpg  

  8. #48
    Oyagoi Flounder's Avatar
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    Ahhh Junichi, you've been busy I see. One of these days you'll have to tell me your secrets on how the Japanese keep koi in aquariums (like those in Nichirin) and still get good results.

    Are you making room for some new arrivals?

  9. #49
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    The 'small Showa' is not so much smaller now. Too bad the sumi has come up where the only red appears on her head. That's koi.

  10. #50
    Nisai Koicjl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kindai View Post
    It was a good time to move them out from my small aquarium to outside pond as spring comes. so, I took pictures again at the end of March.



    Kohaku 42cm/16.5"

    Showa (L) 41cm/16" (dangerous!! )

    Showa (S) 36cm/14"



    the kohaku is about 10 month old and the showa are 7 month old.... male or female?

    Junichi san has bent very busy these day, last weeken him and i was able to harvest our last year Kohaku breeding and i was able to take some pics. and I would like to share some update.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-2010-breeding-update.jpg   Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-2010-breeding-update6.jpg   Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-2010-breeding-update5.jpg   Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-2010-breeding-update4.jpg   Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-2010-breeding-update3.jpg  

    Did I pick wrong ones or future champs?-2010-breeding-update2.jpg  

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