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Thread: Genetic Predisposition to Shimis in Kohaku

  1. #251
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Well said Ed.
    There is so much "if this then that" tied up in this that it resembles a Connect-the-Dots picture where half the Dots are written with invisible ink. Genetics, general water chemistry, Hormones, products of both aerobic and anaerobic decomposition, UV exposure, unidentified viral, bacterial, fungal potential, etc...
    Much to speculate about with no single "all encompassing" answer...yet.

  2. #252
    Tategoi andy's Avatar
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    Fred.....Fair synopsis. Bottomline too many variables and not enough evidence of any one particular process affecting the development of "shimis".

    I have 18 Koi from Tosai to Yonsai. Only one Sansai Kohaku has developed shimis.........Is that a function of dirty filter practices, genetics or both?

  3. #253
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy View Post
    Fred.....Fair synopsis. Bottomline too many variables and not enough evidence of any one particular process affecting the development of "shimis".

    I have 18 Koi from Tosai to Yonsai. Only one Sansai Kohaku has developed shimis.........Is that a function of dirty filter practices, genetics or both?
    Well, according to Peter's explanation, it isn"t genetics and you have dirty filters.

    On the otherhand, it could be that the one single koi you have with a shimi has genetics that make it have a high propensity to develope a shimi in your hardness of water.
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  4. #254
    Daihonmei
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    Right on. It might seem like semantics to some or six of one and a half dozen of another, but Steve - you have a handle on it- the sequence is everything. All nishikigoi are related and share the very same gene pool- it is the individuals blessed with the soundest genetics AND the best conditions that supresses the likelihood of shimmies. You are becoming a master keeper Steve. Waddy, more a of a jack of trades... JR

  5. #255
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    Koi breeders in deep Conversation.

    Covertly recorded 5/11/10 in a Koi breeder’s house somewhere near Ojiya; the nicknames of the three Koi breeders (to protect the actual persons) were -


    ‘Kei’ – a respected Kohaku breeder of note.


    ‘Aki’ – a master of Matsukawabake production but sadly, a master of very little else.


    ‘Reo’ – breeds Kohaku and Sanke part-time, his main profession is that of debt collector for the area Yakuza boss.


    Now read on…….


    Kei
    .

    Have you been reading Veto lately?


    Aki
    .

    Wot’s that then?


    Kei
    .

    You don’t read Veto Aki? It’s a USA Koi forum for expert Koi keepers who also are our valued customers.


    Reo.


    Oh - Goody Goody! do they want to buy some of my Koi then?


    Kei
    .

    No, but I’m worried they might just have discovered my secret.


    Aki
    .

    Wot’s that then?


    Reo
    .

    That’s no secret, everybody in Mushigame knows you’re a cross dresser and people talk.


    Kei
    .

    It’s not that, it’s all to do with erm..’genetics’.


    Aki
    .

    Wot’s that then?


    Reo
    .

    That let’s ME out, I only breed Kohaku and Sanke, I’ve never heard of a variety named Genetics. Who breeds them – Ah! bet it’s Suda, he’s always got something new up his sleeve!


    Kei.


    Listen both of you, it’s not a new variety but it IS a serious matter.

    Thankfully our trusty ally Peter san is trying to help us all by delicately steering them in the other direction and getting them to lose the scent.


    Aki
    .

    Who’s he then?


    Reo
    .

    My granddad knew him well, said he was gay but he did buy a few Koi in the ‘30’s.


    Kei
    .

    Rubbish, you have the wrong person; the illustrious Peter san was here only six years ago when we had the earthquake. Mind you, he could well have been gay though, wore a lot of loud shirts…..


    Aki
    .

    Earthquake? Wot’s that then?


    Reo
    .

    The Chuetsu earthquake you miserable little tic; you were harvesting your pathetic little Matsukawabake in Toyama at the time and missed it all – remember?


    Kei
    .

    Listen – both of you, the secret I refer to is the fact I have always had 127 sets of Kohaku parents in order to provide every buyer with a Kohaku that is ideal for their own pond and in doing so they will be delighted with me and recommend me to all their friends telling them that my Kohaku NEVER EVER display any trace of shimi.


    Aki
    .

    Shimi? Wot’s that then?


    Reo
    .

    Forget it Aki, Matsukawabake don’t get ‘em, and whilst I’m on the subject – do you ever sell any?

    Anyways Kei, so what’s the problem? Everyone in the world knows you have always used 127 sets of Kohaku parents to cleverly cover all these eventualities – is there a drop more sake in that bottle?


    Aki
    .

    Wot eventualities then?


    Kei
    .

    The normal eventualities we all need to bear in mind, there’s exactly 127 of these eventualities according to my calculations hence my 127 sets of Kohaku parents. Each set of parents produce in their offspring 127 hatchings of fry each with totally unique genetics.

    It’s quite obvious really, but, as luck would have it, those damned wizards at Veto have now latched onto it.


    Aki
    .

    Like wot eventualities then? I’ll have a drop more of that sake please.


    Reo
    .

    Nothing complex at all Aki, just the usual basic things we’ve all known since we started out, things such as pH; hard water; soft water; TDS; DOC’s; bead filters including all 47 variants; traditional USA long-throw raceways from the Cherokees; drum filters; belt filters; dancing plastic bio-reactors; showers; stocking rates; feeding rates; variable turnover rates; types of food used; pond volume; temperature ranges; herons; cats; the genetic pre-disposition for Kohaku to get shimi; whether good or bad vibrations are sensed when anyone walks near the pond wearing high heels?; thunderstorms; lightning strikes; acid rain; global warming; shaded ponds; un-shaded ponds; clear water; green water; brown water; black water; clear RO water; green RO water; brackish water; tea leaves; crystal balls; Ozone – do you really wish me to go on?

    Anyways, to save time there’s exactly 127 of these eventualities that Kei has to bear in mind when producing his wonderful Kohaku by way of selecting his 127 sets of parents.


    Kei.

    Spot on Reo, you are indeed a good egg old chap! As you know, it has always been my greatest wish in life to prevent my stocks from coming into contact with any of these natural melanaphores and melanins that lead to shimi as a direct result of genetics.


    Aki
    .

    Erm….I think we can safely say we all erm…agree? on this 100% but can anyone now explain fukurin to me please? I am dying to know, my dad would never tell me!


    Reo
    .

    Oh shut up Aki, there’s only one person in this world apart from you who doesn’t know that and it’s that Peter san I referred to earlier.

    By the way Kei, you said this guy was trying to steer the Veto experts away from the truth of it all, so what’s the reason he’s come up with?


    Kei
    .

    I can Reo - but it’s very difficult to relate without some laughter bursting forth from me.


    Reo
    .

    DO go on Kei; is it to do with bird droppings; frogs or blanket weed?


    Kei
    .

    No, it’s even sillier than that - must have another drink first!


    Aki
    .

    Got to admit, this IS a fine Sake boys. Tell me, is it true they don’t even have to remove their shoes when they walk into their houses in the USA? I’m fed-up with having to do this over here.

    I’ve also decided (hic) that from now on I’m not going to bend double and
    touch the floor before that flippin’ Sanke breeder from Yamanashi whenever he decides to grace us lesser mortals up here with his ‘presence’ and his kamisoris’ and his atarashis’ and his bloody maruzomes’!

    Come to think of it, I reckon he just could learn something from these Veto Boys about them there (hic) melanophores and it just might lead him to producing proper sumi for a change. By the way, does anyone know how many sets of Sanke parents Posh Boy has by now?


    Reo
    .

    As it happens, I was talking to Toshiaki only yesterday in the Koguriyama Karaoke and Lap Dance bar after a round of golf and the word on the street is that he now has 4,832 sets of Sanke parents as he believes there are FAR more possible eventualities than a mere 127.


    Aki
    .

    He would! Bloody stuck up toffee-nosed Southerner! Always goes on – ‘I’m better than you are, I’m better than you are’…..makes me sick!


    Reo
    .

    Anyway back to this Peter san chap and his excuses, it wasn’t the after-effects of KHV was it?


    Kei
    .

    No, but it’s equally as laughable Reo. He says it’s all to do with….


    Aki
    .

    STOP! Don’t tell me; please let me take a wild stab in the dark.


    Reo and Kei
    (in harmony)

    Go on stab away then Aki, let us have it!


    Aki
    .

    Could it be that old chestnut we’ve always used for years as an excuse to the tourists’n’all?


    Kei
    .

    Which is exactly what Aki?


    Aki
    .

    FILTHY FILTERS is that it? – really, is that IT?


    Kei
    .

    Absolutely correct, and if I may say so, very perceptive for a breeder of such low intelligence as you Aki, who has chosen to produce the insidiously common and very ugly Matsukawabake. Tell me, have you ever managed to actually sell one yet?


    Reo
    .

    Truly incredible Kei, but surely these renowned experts on Veto cannot be swayed by this very silly Mr. Peter person? By the way, is he really 143 years old next?


    Kei
    .

    Not a chance there Reo old chap, Veto’s two main players currently are Childish and his very nice boss Oh’Really who comes over to me as a very much maligned and greatly wronged gentleman.

    Take my word for it Reo, not much will get past these two formidable leg ends, they work together as a very well-rehearsed team nimbly bouncing comments, praises and pleasantries twixt each other and heaven help any mere mortal who stands in their way.


    Reo
    .

    But surely this Peter san chap could have come up with a FAR better excuse than that flimsy one?

    I mean couldn’t he have slipped something in that these here genetics were firmly inherited from 'Hanako the Spotty One' and are thus embedded into the beni forevermore?

    Surely that would have been the perfect diversion?


    Aki
    .

    Who’s this Hanako then and whilst I’m at it (hic) who’s this Benny you’ve just brought into the conversation? Who the hell is Benny??????

    Also why is there no known official medical term for ‘the back of the knee’?

    It has always been one of life’s great mysteries to me - apart from fukurin.


    Kei
    .

    The problem still remains my friends despite Peter san’s clumsy attempts to sweep it all under the carpet because he knew well that the learned Veto boys have the answer to it all.

    Of course, this bodes no good for my previously unblemished reputation of supplying unblemished Kohaku.

    Now I do have a theory as to what has taken place but as how to rectify this will take some thought and research?


    Aki
    .

    Whilst you are researching away Kei, I’ll just pop across to Isoshin’s place for another bottle of this delicious sake. Got any spare cash Reo? I’ll pay you back (hic) when I sell my next Mackawackabacka.


    Reo
    .

    Here Aki and, once again, it’s Matsukawabake you are breeding. Now if you’re quick he’s got this on a 10% discount today but he closes in five minutes.

    Now what are your thoughts on all this sombre news Kei old chum? C’mon, spill the beans to Reo.


    Kei
    .

    Hmmm, I put it down to the fact that my last USA shipment went to the one-eyed Koi dealer in Utah and this shipment had two very similar male, sansai inazuma Kohaku alongside the menkaburi and straight hi jobs that seem to be favoured by many over there.

    It is my firm opinion that said dealer has sent the soft water one to the customer who really needed the hard water one and thus this nightmare has now taken place.

    Presumably this means the hard water one will now go in soft water and the repercussions of this are, quite frankly, unthinkable.


    Reo
    .

    Ah, I can now see why you are so distressed today Kei, is there any way I can be of assistance? I have a new supply of the erm.. fine white powder in the car if you……


    Kei
    .

    No thanks Reo, trusted friend - but sadly there’s more devastation yet to report.

    Have you read today’s news sheet?

    Do have a read of this on the front page of today’s Komatsugura Daily Shimbun.

    (Reo looked, gasped then went ashen with mouth agape!)


    Reo
    .

    Please tell me there is some mistake in what I read Kei?


    Kei
    .

    I would like to Reo, heaven knows I would but it has to be accepted as gospel and, as you know, this could mark the final end of our beloved Nishikigoi as we know it.


    Reo
    .

    I am not surprised it has made the front page Kei, especially just after all the harvests have been made and tens of thousands of Nishikigoi are safely in the indoor ponds tucked up.

    Is there ANY way we can possibly hush this up to the rest of the world Kei?
    How about we place some more ads in the paper to give them more advertising revenue and then ask them to play it all down?

    Even get them later to confess it was all just a big mistake?


    Kei
    .

    I’m afraid not Reo, the damage is irreversible – cast your eyes over the headline once again - TWO SHIMI HAVE BEEN DETECTED IN YAMAKOSHI BY TWO INDEPENDENT GAIGIN WITNESSES!


    Aki
    .

    I’m back guys; just made it, bought two and he gave me a further 5% off for cash and threw in some salt and vinegar crisps – lovely man!

    Hey what’s wrong with both of your faces?


    Kei
    .

    Aki, once again it’s really not your concern my friend, this only applies to the ones with red on them. I do confess things are a whole lot easier if we’d all had the sense to stick with black and white.

    Open both bottles Aki and let Reo and I drown our sorrows – Campai my Friends!


    Epilogue
    .

    It should not have happened folks but of course it was inevitable.

    Some hours later Kei, depressed beyond all possible imagination, crawled quietly over to the cupboard and pulled out the superbly crafted wooden box that held the sacrificial knife within.

    He withdrew the gleaming blade and held it in his hands aloft.

    Aki stirred from slumber.

    Hey Kei! - Wot’s that then? he bellowed.

    Too late sweet Aki, now’s the perfect time for hara kiri!

    In deep…breathe out…then upwards…no pause….then across to the right……no pause…….all done methodically by the book…… and all in total silence.

    (Kei did not even have chance to evaluate the quality and texture of the pigmentation in the free-flowing thick crimson liquid. His eyesight had left him by then!)

    Simply just another genetic pre-disposition peculiar to the very same country?

    Filthy Filters? – I think not!

    Rest Kei……….Ssshhhhh……it’s over now.

  6. #256
    zek
    zek is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by waddy View Post
    JNorth - Close it PLEASE!

    I've had my fill of raw amateurs who really believe they are otherwise.

    Thanks, Peter Waddington.
    Sir Peter, Before the thread's closed I'd like to express my deepest gratitude for gracing this unworthy practitioner with tidbits of your vast knowledge. You are inspiring.

  7. #257
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Inspiring indeed.
    Your mastery of the fine art of linguistic drivel is the envy of all

  8. #258
    Guest Nancy M.'s Avatar
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    Bob: Hey Joe & Tom did you hear about Peter Waddington

    Joe: Peter who?

    Tom: I thought that guy kicked the bucket

    Bob: No Tom, he had a mental breakdown, but he is still kicking with his
    eRIP (endless river in plastic) LOL

    Jim North, Please close this thread, as I and others can no longer stand all this constant babble and dribble....

    can someone please get this guy a prescription for prozac....
    Last edited by Nancy M.; 11-08-2010 at 09:41 PM.

  9. #259
    Jumbo bighatbulls's Avatar
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    How did this happen? We where all pretty much getting along when this thing started, now we are back to name calling and childish bouts of temper. Are shimis realy this important to be bickering over?

    How bout instead of fighting we find a scientist to run a study of shimis and post findings.

    I agree with Nancy, this gem is to far stuck in the usless rock for any worth now

  10. #260
    Jumbo jnorth's Avatar
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    Stickin a fork in it....yup its done.
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