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Thread: Genetic Predisposition to Shimis in Kohaku

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
    Peter, as an amendment to my earlier response, Isawa has more well water if I am not mistaken? It may in fact be harder than Yamakoshi...one reason perhaps that I have not had deep shimis in INC Kohaku (but I have had surface shimis). Perhpas others have had diferent experiences in this regard?
    It is warm well water drawn from a depth but it is also supplied by the city and is metered.

    It is harder than Yamakoshi ground water but I have seen many shimi on Kohaku from Isawa over the years.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by waddy View Post
    Q1. The Koi spend NINE months of each year in concrete ponds and only 90 - 100 DAYS in earth ponds. The concrete ponds use city water for human drinking purposes with all the additives that are required for drinking water. This is not ground/snow water.

    Perhaps my math is off? Sept to Oct Harvest with koi being reintroduced in April/May. Even at the ourside ends its only eight months and on the inside ends it would be about 5 months. None the less, the water supply (Mountains of Niigata is still extremely soft, even as source water to the concrete ponds. As I mentioned earlier, even these need buffering through the use of Oyster shell so I am pretty confident that even in concrete in the mountains, the water is still soft.

    Q2. Agreed, yet despite these conditions for nine months of the year, still no shimi surface - why?

    Again, same answer as above

    Q3. That's one argument but does calcium also leach out of a liner pond? I've seen all these symptoms in ponds waterproofed by a wide range of materials.

    I agree about liner ponds and those rendered in differing materials not leaching out. Perhaps at that point it is simply source water? In OKC and Dallas I had very hard water (liner pond and rendered concrete pond and yet sttill extremely hard water. Here in Illinois and when in Memphis, both extremely soft...no shimi (liner pond). In Wisconsin, it was hard water again and only in hard water did shimi appear (primarily surface style).

    Peter Waddington.
    I think temperature plays a role as well in sumi and shimi development. This could also combine in to results.
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
    I think temperature plays a role as well in sumi and shimi development. This could also combine in to results.
    Granted, but we speak of Kohaku here and so, in truth, sumi does not come into the questions raised.

    Furthermore, I am speaking of systems I have seen in most climes imaginable.

    IF 'temperature variants' ARE a factor for these symptoms, why then have I still seen shimi/hikui often in all these other parts of the world?

    As a prime example, Kato san's ponds are not too distant from Yamakoshi and yet his Koi in these ponds still show shimi/hikui on many Koi.

    However, he keeps his very best Koi with Dainichi, Nogami and Marusada generally and these stocks show no signs at all on the occasions I have witnessed the harvests.

    Perhaps it is best we get more input from other forum readers on these matters first?

  4. #24
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    Generally in Yamakoshi, Koi go into the earth ponds around mid-June, depending on temperature.

    They are harvested from late September to early October.

    By my math, that's around 100 days-ish?

    There's still another 265-ish days left in concrete?

  5. #25
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    New to koi hobby but I think food could be part of sumi on kohaku. Last year i used a "good" food it don't show up a lot but this year i used a low quality food and it show up on some of my kohaku.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by waddy View Post
    Generally in Yamakoshi, Koi go into the earth ponds around mid-June, depending on temperature.

    They are harvested from late September to early October.

    By my math, that's around 100 days-ish?

    There's still another 265-ish days left in concrete?
    OK, but still soft water in concrete or not in Yamakoshi.

    So, what are your thoughts about shimi? Good thought provking questions you have had but I would still like to hear your thoughts around why, why not, and contributing factors.
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  7. #27
    Oyagoi RayJordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waddy View Post
    Hi,

    Three questions arise here.

    Q. Why are shimi NOT seen at any Japanese breeder’s harvests or indoor premises in all parts of Japan despite the widely varying degrees of water hardness/softness in these different areas?

    Q. Why are shimi readily visible in many Japanese collectors’ ponds and many other ponds outside of Japan when I have visited them - irrespective of the original breeder/lineage/bloodline?

    Q. Why have I NEVER personally seen shimi arising in a Koi pond that’s less than 30 months old?

    These same three questions can also be asked of hikui.

    Your thoughts?


    Peter Waddington.
    I have left Kohaku's growing in Japan and had shimi's appear while there. So it definitely happens in Japan in kohaku left to grow in mud ponds.

    Ray Jordan

  8. #28
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    I have a Kohaku that came from Japan without shimmies as nisai. After 8 months, she had one... then three. They would come and go on their own, appearing in different places from time to time. She is now close to 85cm and this month she does not have a shimmy. I last saw one on her in July. (I did not check for them in August or September.) She has been in the same pond, same water conditions, same filtration, same feeding regimen.... but they come and go for no apparent reason. Go figure.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayJordan View Post
    I have left Kohaku's growing in Japan and had shimi's appear while there. So it definitely happens in Japan in kohaku left to grow in mud ponds.

    Ray Jordan
    Out of curiosity Ray, was this in Isawa or Yamakashi or?
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayJordan View Post
    I have left Kohaku's growing in Japan and had shimi's appear while there. So it definitely happens in Japan in kohaku left to grow in mud ponds.

    Ray Jordan
    Apologies, it's just that I have never seen this in my life as far as I can recall.

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