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Thread: KHV story

  1. #1
    Jumbo bighatbulls's Avatar
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    KHV story

    A lady loses most of her fish for some unknown reason. Attends a show and buys several fish from different vendors there. When she brings the new fish home they go directly into her pond. With in weeks her fish start to act sick, and start to die. She takes one of the dead fish and sends it off to a lab that tells her the fish has KHV. The lab wants to know who she bought koi from at the show.

    Who is to say that the lady did not previously have a KHV outbreak in her pond that killed off most the fish in her pond. That any remaining fish where now carriers and a threat to the new koi she purchased at the show?

    Why did she purchase fish from different vendors?

    Why did she not quarantine?

    The sucky thing is one of the people on the list of names that this lady had to tell whatever lab that did the KHV test is a person who I have purchased koi from. My koi btw from that purchase are fine. We have had only one issue since their purchase and it wasn't disease related.

    There is alot to be said about this story, I think one thing we should get out of it is that TOTAL RESTOCKING IMHO is not a good idea if you have had a large die off for no explained reason.
    Amanda Bulls-Stephens
    Creator of "The Tail End"
    Central California Koi Society

  2. #2
    Sansai cencalkoi's Avatar
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    Some people should know better than to put newly purchased koi in general population especially when they have lost koi previously. One only needs one lesson of losing a koi or two to know enough to get a quarantine tank set up or dont buy any new koi. So true that if she lost koi before who's to say whatever took them out isnt still in pond. Can KHV survive in pond without koi what are the proper disinfecting procedures. It will be very hard to pinpoint this to any particular vendor unless there have been other losses known to the public.
    Rosimeri Tran
    CENTRAL CALIFORNIA KOI SOCIETY
    cencalkoi.com

  3. #3
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    This story has been repeated many times in many ponds. Once the co-mingling begins the "chain of custody" is all but destroyed and from that point on it is all just guesswork and speculation.

    The biggest red flag is the mass die off before the show. THAT is when the testing should have been done first. All that remains is to determine who the survivors are TODAY as it/they are the likely "immune carriers" that will continue spreading KHV until the day they die. Exactly how and when KHV entered the population is nearly impossible to know at this point without some incredible sleuthing.
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  4. #4
    Nisai jtp79's Avatar
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    I think I have heard the proper disinfecting procedure is to completely drain and "BLEACH" the entire system. I am not sure if this is correct or not. Could someone with more knowledge on the situation please go into more detail?

  5. #5
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    If she tells the lab anything...she is potentially damaging the reputation of vendors....without a firm evidence trail. I would advise not telling the lab anything unless there was only one vendor involved with strick QT involved during which itwas the new koi in QT that tested positive for KHV.


    The KHV virus is believed to only exist without a host for around 4 hours. So if you remove all fish....completely backwash/clean the filters, pond, nets, etc,....and refill with chlorinated tap water....the chlorine should nuke any bacteria and virus. After all that is why chlorine is put into our tap water. Let it all circulate for at least one day. Then you can dechlor, reintroduce the koi....and go through "new pond syndrome" as the filter colony will need to reestablish itself in ~6 weeks (depending on temp, ph, ammonia/nitrite levels). Needless to say, use a good ammonia binding product during those ~6 weeks and keep the feeding to a minimum.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  6. #6
    Tosai
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    To disinfect, use 1 part bleach to 10 parts water. The amount of chlorine in chlorinated tap water is not enough. Yes, it will stop bacteria in our drinking water, but not a virus. Disinfect EVERYTHING, filters, tubs, nets, bowls.

    I'm surprised the lab asked where the fish came from. I know there has been talk about making KHV a reportable occurence, but didn't think it is as yet.

    I tried to track down a source once, and it's almost impossible. Far too many people continue to buy from multiple vendors and if they QT at all, they QT together which totally defeats the purpose of isolating a problem.

  7. #7
    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey S View Post
    To disinfect, use 1 part bleach to 10 parts water. The amount of chlorine in chlorinated tap water is not enough. Yes, it will stop bacteria in our drinking water, but not a virus. Disinfect EVERYTHING, filters, tubs, nets, bowls.

    I'm surprised the lab asked where the fish came from. I know there has been talk about making KHV a reportable occurence, but didn't think it is as yet.

    I tried to track down a source once, and it's almost impossible. Far too many people continue to buy from multiple vendors and if they QT at all, they QT together which totally defeats the purpose of isolating a problem.
    1:10? It would be cheaper to dig a new pond and backfill the old one. That does not include the California waste water fines I would pay for dumping 1500 gallons of bleach down the drain. I get your point but question the dilution... perhaps we need to include a time element involved. Like X ppt of bleach for X hours?

  8. #8
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer Steve View Post
    1:10? It would be cheaper to dig a new pond and backfill the old one. That does not include the California waste water fines I would pay for dumping 1500 gallons of bleach down the drain. I get your point but question the dilution... perhaps we need to include a time element involved. Like X ppt of bleach for X hours?
    That ratio came from Steve C on another KHV thread here. There is another disinfectant - can't think of the name - used in clean areas. But the bleach is the cheapest, unless you live in CA I guess.

    I guess you could dump all the water and wash down everything to save the dumping charges.

  9. #9
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey S View Post
    To disinfect, use 1 part bleach to 10 parts water. The amount of chlorine in chlorinated tap water is not enough. Yes, it will stop bacteria in our drinking water, but not a virus. Disinfect EVERYTHING, filters, tubs, nets, bowls.

    I'm surprised the lab asked where the fish came from. I know there has been talk about making KHV a reportable occurence, but didn't think it is as yet.

    I tried to track down a source once, and it's almost impossible. Far too many people continue to buy from multiple vendors and if they QT at all, they QT together which totally defeats the purpose of isolating a problem.
    This is an instance where I become an advocate for the use of PP.
    Megadose the pond to nuke everything and once it has fully exhausted itself, drain and refill with fresh water and no dechlor. You could even toss in a few lbs of "Super Shock and Swim" (depending on pond size) if you wanted to buy yourself some added insurance. Circulate well for several days, drain, dry, and let stand dry for a week. Check all filter media to ensure that it is free from any and all detritus/debris, and if need be give it a good power wash.
    Ain't nothing gonna live through that and you don't have the issue with heavy chlorine going down the drain (or the 10/1 dilution expense). Wastewater treatment plants HATE slugs of chlorine hitting the system like that. It raises holy hell with their digesters and can take weeks to restore their operation to a normal balance.

  10. #10
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighatbulls View Post
    A lady loses most of her fish for some unknown reason. Attends a show and buys several fish from different vendors there. When she brings the new fish home they go directly into her pond. With in weeks her fish start to act sick, and start to die. She takes one of the dead fish and sends it off to a lab that tells her the fish has KHV. The lab wants to know who she bought koi from at the show.
    Who is to say that the lady did not previously have a KHV outbreak in her pond that killed off most the fish in her pond. That any remaining fish where now carriers and a threat to the new koi she purchased at the show?
    Why did she purchase fish from different vendors?
    Why did she not quarantine?
    The sucky thing is one of the people on the list of names that this lady had to tell whatever lab that did the KHV test is a person who I have purchased koi from. My koi btw from that purchase are fine. We have had only one issue since their purchase and it wasn't disease related.
    There is alot to be said about this story, I think one thing we should get out of it is that TOTAL RESTOCKING IMHO is not a good idea if you have had a large die off for no explained reason.
    The problem I have with this "story" is; "Why did she purchase fish from different vendors?".

    If I had to limit my Koi purchases to only one vendor, that would end the Koi hobby I have enjoyed for 30 years.

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