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Thread: Grow Out 2011?

  1. #1
    Nisai
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    Grow Out 2011?

    Are there any plans brewing for another one similar to the 2010 GO? Preferably one, at a price point that will not entail this humble newcomer to the board to have to sell a kidney or entertain lonely widows in some revolting manner.

  2. #2
    Oyagoi Flounder's Avatar
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    Paulie, what price point is that?

    What variety do you prefer?

  3. #3
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Kohaku is a great color variety to be considered.

    Deciding on a price point, will be a lot more difficult for any number of reasons. The age of the Koi will also determine pricing. Going with younger sumimono color varieties have better odds of finding something that may turn out pattern wise with the appearance of sumi later in life. Most Kohaku, you can tell very soon about what the pattern will look like especially knowing the bloodline and parents.

    The last two growouts here involved gosanke, but you could always opt for another variety. Doesn't hurt to plan ahead and bring the subject up now as 2011 shows up a week after Christmas!
    Dick Benbow

  4. #4
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Why a grow-out? It seems to me that people participate in grow-outs for four reasons: (1) They believe they are getting a much better price than if they bought alone, (2) they think there is a chance that among all the fish involved there is a really good one they might get cheaply (sort of like a lottery ticket), (3) they want to compare outcomes with others' raising techniques, and (4) they enjoy participating in a group endeavor.

    In many grow-outs, the group purchase does involve savings, but I don't think the bulk discount is nearly as great as some folks seem to convince themselves. In most instances, I think a 20-30% reduction is about the best one can hope to receive, not the 50-75% some seem to think. In a $300 grow-out, folks will not be getting $1,000 koi, but a lot of people seem to think they will. And, there will not be a 'lottery ticket' in the batch, although there will be some that develop better than the price point (and some not so good). The notion of a future GC contender in the batch is just unrealistic. Comparing outcomes is where lots of grow-outs fall down, simply because most participants do not continue participating after a few months. Perhaps continuing participation would improve if there was a group leader who pushed for updates and did not make themselves too much of a nuisance in the process? (The best fish for encouraging participation over the course of a full year are probably ones that will develop quickly in the course of a year, not ones that will take several years to bring along.) The fun of being part of a group undertaking is where grow-outs can be rewarding, even if the other factors fall short, and this is more about the people participating than anything else.

    I think the grow-out that makes the most sense is one that involves a variety that the group would like to have for reasons other than showing. The gosanke are likely to disappoint someone whose interest is in showing, unless the price point is so high that few would be willing to participate without making a personal decision to acquire a particular fish. I think good varieties to consider would be kigoi, ochiba, gin matsuba, chagoi ...ones folks like to have for the contrast they provide in a pond of mostly gosanke, and will be happy to keep as pets even if they are not destined for greatness. And, to keep it fun, it is best for the price point to be where the participants are not bothered if they lose the fish within a few months.

    It seems to me that in every grow-out in which I've participated, there have been some upset folks because their $100 fish turned out to be a $100 koi, and sometimes jealousy shows when someone else's $100 fish turns out to be worth keeping around another year. Maybe that would not happen so much if the grow-out was promoted for the fun of it, and not on the basis of how great a deal folks are getting. Unrealistic expectations are at the root of most such matters.

  5. #5
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
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    I agree with Mike. You really are not getting any bargain fish when you enter into a growout. You may end up with a nice fish in the end, but you also may end up with a cull. Of the five Omosako growouts that I started out with (3 that were actually in the competition), four are just plain ugly now. They are yellowish colored with very little sumi. The fifth one, the fish that actually won the competition, is very pretty with beautiful sumi and shiroji....but also very small. It won't grow. It is probably no more than 13" now even though it has not been bowled up in quite some time. The money that was paid for those 5 fish I would have been much better off putting into a single higher grade tosai that I could have selected myself from a local domestic breeder (like Lotusland). At his harvest this past fall he had some amazing tosai that were being sold for just a little more than I paid for those 5 shiros.

  6. #6
    Nisai creekds's Avatar
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    As a novice to this "hobby", I found it a learning experience in participating in the 2010 CFKS growout. I spent hours researching the internet for information, and many more hours reviewing the photographs. What I purchased was the trip on road to knowledge, though it may be a deadend. Would I participate in another ??

    Darrell

  7. #7
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Instead of calling it a "Growout" call it the "Group Buy Deal"....Sounds better and no feelings would be hurt, from what has been expressed in this thread.

    The word "Growout" is a cop out for shady business. IMHO.

  8. #8
    Fry
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    Maybe some of the american breeders step up and give some tosai for growout to see if they can compare to japanese koi growth rates. Instead of hoping for a Grand Champion the local breeders can get a guage on how their bloodlines are coming along. Scott Purdin in Lousiana is pretty proud of his upper end koi how about the more affordable tosai? Does an American bred 100$ tosai stack up to a 100$ japanese tosai? Just a thought.

  9. #9
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felipe View Post
    Maybe some of the american breeders step up and give some tosai for growout to see if they can compare to japanese koi growth rates. Instead of hoping for a Grand Champion the local breeders can get a guage on how their bloodlines are coming along. Scott Purdin in Lousiana is pretty proud of his upper end koi how about the more affordable tosai? Does an American bred 100$ tosai stack up to a 100$ japanese tosai? Just a thought.
    personally, I feel like for $100, you will get more for your money with a domestic over an import. Buying a domestic lets you buy directly from the breeder. With an import, you are paying for the broker, the shipping to the US,and the dealer mark up. So a $25 import might end up costing $100 by the time you actually get it.

  10. #10
    Sansai almostgeorgia's Avatar
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    Hey, I'll jump in and say right now I'd certainly like to participate if another grow out is planned for this season. I missed out on the last one and it's getting rather tiring 'lurking' on the current thread, reading how much fun everyone is having.

    Personally, I'd love to see one held for Showa, but will admit that's just because I have a real desire to add a nice one to the pond right now. As development is said to be slower with that pattern, perhaps another type such as MikeM suggested might be more appropriate. I realize it's all for the fun of the competition with perhaps a bit of a 'lottery ticket' aura around it as well, hoping to get struck by lightening and pick up an above average specimen. At any rate, count me in.

    Domestic or Import, either will work for me as well.

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