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Thread: It's a System - Growth rates

  1. #1
    Honmei
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    It's a System - Growth rates

    The Oyster Shell and Sumi thread got off track (in a good way) into many other areas, one of which was stocking densities. I even drafted an article about such for KOI USA based on the discussions.

    But, that also got me to thinking about growth rates which we also know are dependent are the three basic components for koi: Genetics, Husbandry, and Environment. Yes, this is going to be tied into yet another article for KOI USA.

    Before I go on, let me get some input from our Koi Bito - ers concerning sizes by age. The first "caveot" is that the environment stays equal. As such, the stocking density remians equal and this is simply not just the number of koi, but the comparable number of Mature female koi over the age span. Meaning that the number of koi must decline as size increases inorder to maintain the same water quality at the same "percentages" of food to weight/size ratios. Confused?

    With genetics being the real limiting factor provisding we provide good husbandry and environment, first fill out the size in inches expected at 1 year of age and then fill in 30 inches at the age you would expect the koi to be that size. Next, fill in the size at age 2 and complete the rest of the chart. Once we get ten or so responses I'll take the averages by age and then conitinue on. Thiose responses outside of the norm (standard deviation so to speak) will be thrown out.



    People typically measure growth by inches so this is our starting point. Copy the following and fill it out in your responding posts please (trust me there is a method to my madness)

    Ending Age Size (in)
    1
    2
    3
    4
    5
    6
    7
    8
    9
    10
    11
    12
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  2. #2
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    OK...
    I'm absolutely certain that there is a sound method to your madness
    Upon reading your instruction several times I've also come to this conclusion
    It reads more like there is a madness to your method

    'Splain it more clearly Lucy 'cause I'm not really sure what you are asking us to do

  3. #3
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
    OK...
    I'm absolutely certain that there is a sound method to your madness
    Upon reading your instruction several times I've also come to this conclusion
    It reads more like there is a madness to your method

    'Splain it more clearly Lucy 'cause I'm not really sure what you are asking us to do
    Larry,
    Don't make it harder than what it is. Although I gave the instructions below, if you feel more comofrtable simply filling in the sizes for a given age in order (verses the way I asked), fine. That will still work. I'll explain later how the particular order I gave comes into play.

    First, fill out the size in inches expected at 1 year of age and then fill in 30 inches at the age you would expect the koi to be that size. Next, fill in the size at age 2 and complete the rest of the chart. Once we get ten or so responses I'll take the averages by age and then conitinue on. Those responses outside of the norm (standard deviation so to speak) will be thrown out.



    People typically measure growth by inches so this is our starting point. Copy the following and fill it out in your responding posts please (trust me there is a method to my madness)

    Ending Age --------- Size (in)
    1
    2
    3
    4
    5
    6
    7
    8
    9
    10
    11
    12
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  4. #4
    Honmei
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    As an example:

    Ending Age --------- Size (in)
    1 10
    2 17+
    3 21-
    4 23.5
    5 26
    6 27.75
    7 29.25
    8 31
    9 32+
    11
    12

    __________________



    Or even (+/-) (just means slightly over or under)


    Ending Age --------- Size (in)
    1 10
    2 15
    3 18-
    4 20+
    5 22-
    6 23.5
    7 26
    8 27+
    9 28+
    10 29+
    11 30
    12


    These are just examples. what do you think the "average" is?
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  5. #5
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Well...I think I smell what you're stepping in, but this is me making a lot of assumptions
    Japanese Tosai purchased at the end of Tosai year, growing in my pond with my medium length growing season and relatively long winters.
    Ending Age --------- Size (in)
    1 12"
    2 18"
    3 22"
    4 25"
    5 27"
    6 28"
    7 29"
    8 30"
    9
    10
    11
    12

    Japanese Nissai purchased at the end of Nissai year, grown under same conditions.
    Ending Age --------- Size (in)
    1
    2 20"
    3 25"
    4 28"
    5 30"
    6
    7
    8
    9
    11
    12


    Japanese Sansai purchased at the end of Sansai year, grown under same conditions.
    Ending Age --------- Size (in)
    1
    2
    3 26"
    4 29"
    5 31"
    6
    7
    8
    9
    10
    11
    12

    If that ain't what you're looking for speak now or forever hold your pieces
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  6. #6
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
    Well...I think I smell what you're stepping in, but this is me making a lot of assumptions
    Japanese Tosai purchased at the end of Tosai year, growing in my pond with my medium length growing season and relatively long winters.
    Ending Age --------- Size (in)
    1 12"
    2 18"
    3 22"
    4 25"
    5 27"
    6 28"
    7 29"
    8 30"
    9
    10
    11
    12


    If that ain't what you're looking for speak now or forever hold your pieces
    Thank you Larry, your first example is what I was/am looking for since once we have enough numbers/examples we can go further and we want to examinegrowth rates in hobbyistrs ponds over a period of time without the interference of different rates affected at different ages under different conditions (your second two examples which I removed while quoting you).

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  7. #7
    Jumbo RobF's Avatar
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    Steve, There is this stuff at http://www.coloradokoi.com/koisize.htm .Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails It's a System - Growth rates-growth_rate.gif  

  8. #8
    Jumbo RobF's Avatar
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    Which from the table gives:

    Ending Age Size ~30.0
    1 9.2
    2 15.6
    3 20.1
    4 23.4
    5 25.7
    6 27.3
    7 28.5
    8 29.4
    9
    10
    11
    12

  9. #9
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    Steve, There is this stuff at Koi Growth .Rob
    Hi Rob,
    I'll discuss that measurement concept after we get at least 10 age/size responses.
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  10. #10
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Steve

    Are those expected minimum sizes? There can be a range of sizes depending on the genetics.

    This could interesting and got me thinking in an historical context, which is really a reflection of the different approaches in our husbandry; Genetics, Husbandry, and Environment - plus Feeding. For my local community the expected minimum size at age one is today around double what it was in the 80s.

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