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Thread: Can we compare filtration systems?

  1. #1
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    Can we compare filtration systems?

    I'm hoping to start building my pond in the next 2 months.

    Can we compare the different filtration systems such as chambers vs. moving beds vs. Nexus vs. "river" vs. shower and BD only, etc?

  2. #2
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    Sandy, I'm very lucky that I have plenty of space for filtering under a elevated deck right next to the pond. With that being said I'd never have a pond that the bottom drains don't go to a SC (photo)(I have plenty of room). I'm also a big fan of moving beds full of K1.


    The issue I have is I built my pond right before I had much knowledge (some will question that even now).

    Although I've done some "Tweeking" , I look forward to my dream pond in the future. I hope to learn some things from your thread.

    Troy
    President : GLK&GS
    Officer : NMZNA
    Certified Judge : AKJA

  3. #3
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    Thanks, Troy.

    I understand the concepts between the different systems and I know a lot depends on finances and space. That's why I intentionally didn't put any specifics. I just want to get a discussion going on various types of filtration, the pros and cons of each.

    Some that I'm contemplating:

    The River like Purdin uses which is a large settling chamber flowing to
    another chamber with Jap mats
    A shower and bottom drain like Steve Joneli (Birdman) uses
    The ever popular static and moving DIY only using larger containers
    than 55 gallon drums

    I can't afford Nexus but I'd like the comparison of all filtration systems.
    The views expressed above are my own personal views and, as such, do not necessarily reflect the views of the AKCA or the KHA program.
    SANDY

  4. #4
    Oyagoi RayJordan's Avatar
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    I would build an gunnite elevated pond 9-10 feet wide by 24 ft to 30 ft long with a bottom that slopes from 5ft to 7 ft in depth end to end. Then I would build a 4 ft wide by 4 ft deep filter chamber that runs the lenght of the pond with several chambers with cone sloped bottoms and bottom drains n each chamber. 1st part of filter chamber would be gravity fed from bottom drains at the deep end of the pond and would be a up flow settlement chamber, 2nd part would be a down flow moving bed chamber containing kaldenes media and lots of aeration, 3rd chamber would be a up flow Japanese Matting chamber. Return to pond would be through a trickle tower back to the shallow end of the pond. Also include a large skimmer circuit that would also supply the settlement tank chamber. Goal would be to move the maximum amount of water with the least cost.
    Disclosure:These opinions are based on my experience and conversations with persons I consider accomplished koi keepers and do not reflect the viewpoint of any organization.

  5. #5
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    Because you brought it up Ray,

    While I agree that every pond should have a skimmer or two, I don't get the whole Skimmer going to a SC idea, which I've seen brought up before.

    So Debris is to a certain degree "Floating" on the water surface and goes into the skimmer, the skimmer then takes this "Floating" Debris to a SC where the whole idea is to get things to "Settle", correct ?

    I understand not wanting Debris to have to settle in my pond's water column to be filtered out through bottom drains, I just don't see SC's doing that efficient of a job with that certain Debris.

  6. #6
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 View Post
    Because you brought it up Ray,

    While I agree that every pond should have a skimmer or two, I don't get the whole Skimmer going to a SC idea, which I've seen brought up before.

    So Debris is to a certain degree "Floating" on the water surface and goes into the skimmer, the skimmer then takes this "Floating" Debris to a SC where the whole idea is to get things to "Settle", correct ?

    I understand not wanting Debris to have to settle in my pond's water column to be filtered out through bottom drains, I just don't see SC's doing that efficient of a job with that certain Debris.
    Change the SC from Settling Chamber to Separation Chamber. While the skimmer skims surface water, even sinking solids can be on the surface, if the force acting on the sinking solids keep it is in suspension. Then as the water mixes, there will even be some in the surface water. Likewise, depending on how the SC is set up, floating solids can "separate" to the surface and sinking to the bottom with less passing on to the bio from the skimmer. That would be passive separation. Add a micro screen device and then you can actively separate.

    As for comparing individual filter systems? Well, they are all dependent on their applications in an overall system design and they really need to be looked at wholeistically...after all, "It's a System."
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  7. #7
    Honmei
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    Troy,
    To illustrate my point, the picture below shows my gravity fed skimmer separation chamber. It was origijnally designed to have an Answer within but alas the pump went out and I have been too busy with other projects to modify it for a different pump. The point is that in the picture, you can see settled solids on the bottom and the lighter colored fuzzy images of floating solids as well. Both of which would have gone on to bio (and speed the fouling of such) had it not been for this chamber.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Can we compare filtration systems?-p1060086-lr.jpg  
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  8. #8
    Oyagoi gcuss's Avatar
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    Hi Sandy,

    Not the comparison you're hoping for... However, when I do it again I'll be running through a seive, then onto a vortex with either jap mat or static K1 preplumbed with airlines for cleaning, then off to a shower, and then return to the pond. This would be my layout for all BD circuits. The skimmers would run through a seive as well, then another vortex, then a foam fractioner then return to pond...

    Can't wait to watch you build your new pond!

    Grant

  9. #9
    Daihonmei
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    ALL filters serve two basic purposes-
    1) TO filter out detritus and macro debris from circulation

    2) TO act as an aerobic biochamber for the reduction of toxic ammonia to ever less toxic forms.

    Beyond these two functions are additional considerations and other forms of 'filtration' for dealing with those items too small/dissolved' to be taken out by pure mechanical straining means . Chemical absorption, foam fractionation, etc.

    So when you discuss the options and I assume you are suggesting which is best-- there is not right answer. Each design can be promoted for its efficiency and positive aspects and then marked down for it's limitations. Thre are definitely some systems that are more efficient and require less maintenance than others - but no heaven on earth other than the marketing brochure!
    I've found that a combination of filters can give a synergistic effect. a trickle tower on one circuit and a submerged system on the second circuit. The waterfall, by the way is a strained rationalization and best left in the water gardening hype -- a pretty and attractive addition to the esthetics of the pond of course-- but no more than that.
    A TT for instance produces MUCH better degassing and at the source of the need- the nitrifying bed ( and a huge bed at that!).

    JR

  10. #10
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
    Troy,
    To illustrate my point, the picture below shows my gravity fed skimmer separation chamber. It was origijnally designed to have an Answer within but alas the pump went out and I have been too busy with other projects to modify it for a different pump. The point is that in the picture, you can see settled solids on the bottom and the lighter colored fuzzy images of floating solids as well. Both of which would have gone on to bio (and speed the fouling of such) had it not been for this chamber.

    I would never suggest we allow Debris to go to our Bio. Depending on one's "system" , if adding a skimmer to a SC is going to increase the water flow within the SC because of an added pump then I'm going with plan "B". I'd rather the SC have a perfect flow rate from my BD's then a over flow rate because we added another pump from the skimmer unit causing the SC not to work it's best. If we have the skimmer and BD's on the same pump (I don't) well I'll listen to the idea.

    I'm lucky as I work from my Home. My skimmer has a net to catch leaves, etc. , then behind that a layer of J-Mat to catch anything that is fine. This is cleaned every morning while the coffee brews.

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