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Thread: yamabuki spawn?'s

  1. #1
    Nisai
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    yamabuki spawn?'s

    i have a pretty nice yamabuki 26+'' that i plan on spawning this coming spring, what i am wondering is what other varities can be spawned with a yamabuki and what would you get? or is it yamabuki to yamabuki only?
    thanks
    ben
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails yamabuki spawn?'s-img_0036.jpg   yamabuki spawn?'s-img_0093.jpg   yamabuki spawn?'s-img_0231.jpg  

  2. #2
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Keeping the spawning within the "Ogon Family" will improve your odds of obtaining a decent yield of Koi worth messing with. Outcrossing with Gosanke will lower your yield considerably and make sembetsu predictability a pure crapshoot.
    Just the opinion of an amateur mind you.
    I'd be especially interested in hearing from Bradly on this one as he has done a fair amount of outcrossing to achieve bigger and better results. His observations might be valuable.

  3. #3
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
    Keeping the spawning within the "Ogon Family" will improve your odds of obtaining a decent yield of Koi worth messing with. Outcrossing with Gosanke will lower your yield considerably and make sembetsu predictability a pure crapshoot.
    Just the opinion of an amateur mind you.
    I'd be especially interested in hearing from Bradly on this one as he has done a fair amount of outcrossing to achieve bigger and better results. His observations might be valuable.
    thanks papabear, i was thinking that as well. i was hoping to create larger koi with an interesting pattern, just dont know which way to go about it. would an ochiba/yamabuki create anything desirable?
    thanks
    ben

  4. #4
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    As Larry has suggested, when you begin bringing in say ociba, It's a crap shoot as to what you'll get. You might have one outstanding individual, but it may take years to recognize and you have to maintain the numbers of worthless koi to get to the one (hopefully desirerable). Until you develop a feel for what your shooting for, a good education will be to stay
    with non pattern hikari. During this time you can focus on seeing if your genetics pass along that difficult hikari sheen into their young and that the pecs are proper sized. By mixing Hikari and non Hikari, pattern and single color, your base will be quite diverse. pending a miracle that somehow you find something you like, trying to stabilize it so it can be duplicated with such a broad genetic base may be MORE than accomplished in a lifetime.

    If you do decide to mix things up, you'll be totally amazed at what shows up.

    So no matter which way you opt, you will learn lessons and even under the worst bit of luck come to appreciate what american and japanese breeders manage to "pull off".
    Dick Benbow

  5. #5
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Your Yamabuki is the result of innumerable generations bred to produce a high-shine metallic fish with yellow coloration. Her siblings likely included many that turned orange or brassy, and many with low shine. These were either trashed or sold off in bulk. Try selecting a goal that will take advantage of the traits for which she was bred. Like Larry and Dick, I think you will be happier if you do not stray too far. I think it would be fun to cross her with a Gin Matsuba or a Doitsu metallic... say, a Kikisui. Have fun.

  6. #6
    Tosai
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    I tried crossing female Yamabuki Ogon Ginrin with male Kohaku. I got regular Ogon, Ginrin Ogon, regular hariwake, ginrin hariwake, and platinum. If I have another chance, I would probably cross it with Showa, maybe I would get Kin Showa. Hikari is fun to cross with.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails yamabuki spawn?'s-_mg_8156.jpg   yamabuki spawn?'s-_mg_8173.jpg   yamabuki spawn?'s-_mg_8181.jpg  

  7. #7
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Absolutely, for the koi keeper who wants to produce nice koi that have the best chance of fitting the standard and possibly making the show grade, it is best to stick with cossing similar koi types - it is best to stick with metallic crossed with metallic and cross the same patttern orientation.

    There are reasons for undertaking an outcross between different koi types, but I would hate to divert this thread from it's goal.

    I have attached an example of what you can expect when crossing a metallic and non metallic koi - this comes from an hikari utsurimono crossed with a carp. You will no doubt notice the poor pattern, but more importantly, the poor sheen. This koi is now roughly 10 weeks old and has no sheen in the dorsal or tail fins. There is very little sheen in the head area and in the body. To vary amounts, the sheen is incomplete throughout the spawn. If, the goal of the spawn was to produce nice hikari, it would be a total failure.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails yamabuki spawn?'s-dscf1414.jpg  

  8. #8
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    For the purpose of comparison, hopefully, in this image, you will notice the difference in the amount of sheen, where both parents were hikari.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails yamabuki spawn?'s-hku4.jpg  

  9. #9
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    out of respect to the last poster, I'd like to ammend my last comment to say...".....come to appreciate what American,Japanese and Australian breeders, manage to pull off"....

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