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Thread: Foam fractionator hidden in filter pit?

  1. #1
    Nisai jtp79's Avatar
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    Foam fractionator hidden in filter pit?

    Can this be done?

    I recently built a foam fractionator from an idea on bito. It works great but the thing is awfully ugly. I am in the process of redoing my pond and know that I am going to need to add a or several ff to help remove doc's from my pond.

    The design I used was from a thread that ethan started. I was wondering if one of these could be pump fed and then somehow the exit port be returned with a "Y" or "T" to put it back to the return of a pump and thus being able to have the ff in the pit under the deck hidden from sight.

    Would it work?
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  2. #2
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtp79 View Post
    Can this be done?

    I recently built a foam fractionator from an idea on bito. It works great but the thing is awfully ugly. I am in the process of redoing my pond and know that I am going to need to add a or several ff to help remove doc's from my pond.

    The design I used was from a thread that ethan started. I was wondering if one of these could be pump fed and then somehow the exit port be returned with a "Y" or "T" to put it back to the return of a pump and thus being able to have the ff in the pit under the deck hidden from sight.

    Would it work?
    I doubt it.

    You want the same pump that feeds the foam fractionator to also pump the water back to the pond?

    How would you set up the flow so that the foam fractionator is not a "sump" full of water or the opposite, the return pump is drawing air?

  3. #3
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtp79 View Post
    Can this be done?

    I recently built a foam fractionator from an idea on bito. It works great but the thing is awfully ugly. I am in the process of redoing my pond and know that I am going to need to add a or several ff to help remove doc's from my pond.

    The design I used was from a thread that ethan started. I was wondering if one of these could be pump fed and then somehow the exit port be returned with a "Y" or "T" to put it back to the return of a pump and thus being able to have the ff in the pit under the deck hidden from sight.

    Would it work?
    Gravity feeding a clarity or other similar FF can be done BUT is tough to do.

    First one must understand that moving water requires force. We typically think in the terms of gravity and pumping as ther applicable forces. To feed the FF using gravity as implied (in a filer pit which is typically below water level), one must understand that if the FF will continue to be fed even if power to the return pump goes off. Thus, the FF must have a receiving reservoir capable of holding more thaan the possible volume of water that would drain down fromthe pond should their be a pump failure or power outage. Another factor is balancing the pump to the gravity supplied flow. This will be next to impossible to do without a balancing system which would require another pump.

    The attached photo is a down and dirty, quick diagram. The main, circulation pump would pump less than the least possible flow of the gravity supply. The level of water in the reservior would thus rise over time and the balancing pump (such as a sump pump) would then periodically pump the excess down, but never to the point of starving the main circulation pump. Additional safe guards beside the reservior size would be needed such as low water level limiting switch on the main circ pump.

    Here's a start for you to consider.. pick up point, FF elevation in raltion to the pond's operating level and as such piping sizes all come into play as well depending on the desired flow.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Foam fractionator hidden in filter pit?-gravity-feed-ff.jpg  
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  4. #4
    eds
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    A friend is gravity feeding sets of showers on a pond. He has simply built a chamber up to the pond height by the side of the pond. Water flows from a surface pipe (effectively an overflow) into the chamber and over the showers. The water flows through the showers and then collects in the bottom of the chamber to be pumped back out into the pond. He is going to fit a float valve on the pump in case it pulls too much water so the pump doesn't run dry.

    When the pump is turned off water will simply flow into the chamber until either the water in the pond gets too low to feed the overflow or the chamber is filled to the height of the pond water level.

    I can't see why you couldn't do this with a FF tower in a similar chamber by the pond.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by eds View Post
    A friend is gravity feeding sets of showers on a pond. He has simply built a chamber up to the pond height by the side of the pond. Water flows from a surface pipe (effectively an overflow) into the chamber and over the showers. The water flows through the showers and then collects in the bottom of the chamber to be pumped back out into the pond. He is going to fit a float valve on the pump in case it pulls too much water so the pump doesn't run dry.

    When the pump is turned off water will simply flow into the chamber until either the water in the pond gets too low to feed the overflow or the chamber is filled to the height of the pond water level.

    I can't see why you couldn't do this with a FF tower in a similar chamber by the pond.
    Eds, that is almost exactly as I described.
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  6. #6
    Nisai jtp79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    I doubt it.

    You want the same pump that feeds the foam fractionator to also pump the water back to the pond?

    How would you set up the flow so that the foam fractionator is not a "sump" full of water or the opposite, the return pump is drawing air?

    Rick,

    The pond is going to be setup on a 3 pump system. So it could be a different pump than was putting it there. I was thinking maybe it could be used as a bypass and also be recieving water from elsewhere. Just an idea,,,I have no idea if it would work or not. Steve I will look over the design drawing tonight,,,have to run now.

    Is it possibly from something like I am describing to work?

  7. #7
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Basically the "Ethan" foam fractionator is plumbed with a pump fed in/gravity flow out or gravity flow in/gravity flow out.

    Steve has come up with a dual pump plumbing idea that might work.


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    Basically the "Ethan" foam fractionator is plumbed with a pump fed in/gravity flow out or gravity flow in/gravity flow out.

    Steve has come up with a dual pump plumbing idea that might work.


    No "might" about it, it would work. I didn't include elevations for the pick up point nor the elevation and sizes for the feedline since I didn't know what flow rate would be desired for the FF. As mentioned, Eds knows someone running a shower system (which is what the Calrity style of FF is) using very close to this methodologgy. The ket is whatever the flow rate on the gravity line is to sligghtly undersize the circulation pump (on a flow switch) so that the resevoir builds slightly and then excess is pumped back periodically. Simple actually concept wise but more difficult to build than a typical shower style installation.....also more space consumption and in a filter house/pit can cost a lot more. Installin thses in a more remote location where they cannot be seen is typically a more viable solution to the negative visual and sound issues.

    Edit: An additional consideration is the prefiltering of solids before the gravity fed FF. This can be done through the use of a sieve but would require additional vertical height availability.
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  9. #9
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post

    Edit: An additional consideration is the prefiltering of solids before the gravity fed FF. This can be done through the use of a sieve but would require additional vertical height availability.
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  10. #10
    Daihonmei
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    This all really depends on your base line reading of DOCs to begin with. IF you have a very high level of DOCs then a gravit fed unit will work, as it will overcome the usual negatives of freshwater than make a FF ineffective in normal application.
    IF you do have extreme DOCs however, this techinique will 'beat out' the massive amounts into foam.
    The efficient unit is a mazzi driven pressure unit that forces DOCs into foam. These are much more efficient but even these are modest in comparison to marine system units where saltwater increases tension of bubble surfaces and makes for a higher quality foam for DIC entrapment. JR

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