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Thread: Shrimps in mat chambers

  1. #1
    Sansai
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    Shrimps in mat chambers

    Hello everyone,

    Though I still read and follow this forum, it's been so many years since I last wrote here. Maybe only the really 'oldtimer' (MikeM or Dick Benbow?) can recall.

    I have a very interesting experience that I would like to share. You see, two year ago I put about 20 pairs of small shrimps ( the ones you usually find in aquariums) into the mat chamber.

    Before long, they have multiplied into several hundreds. Every time I do a backwash, I use a fish net to catch those that are being flushed out, and put them into the pond. My koi gladly chase after, and eat them. Surely they consider that as a treat!

    What's surprising is that, after about a year, the chambers have become so clean that I have never done any cleaning since. All the sludge have just disappeared, eaten by the shrimps I presumed.

    I wonder if any of you has similar experience. Anyone knows what would be the long term effect? Maybe JasPR can answer. Thank you.

  2. #2
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Good Morning Kiki. It has been a very long time, but I do remember you

    Interesting idea. I've heard of plenty of folks in the tropics using Mosquito Fish in their filter chambers, but I think this is the first time I've heard of Shrimps being used. Many crustaceans are "scavenger feeders" that clean up wastes in their natural environment so I don't suppose it should surprise me too much, but your experience sounds pretty amazing.

    Did you have any experience with them in Aquariums before you tried this? If you did, what was your water maintenance like in that setting? They must produce waste of some sort, but exactly what kind could be revealing as the filtration would still need to deal with their wastes somehow.

    In any case, it does sound like a very "clean" way to get all of the food value going into the pond back into the Koi
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  3. #3
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
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    Hi Kiky,
    I guess do to your location, these would tropical shrimp in your filter. If they are keeping the filter clean they are probably doing more good than any small amount of waste they would produce. A picture would be nice.
    Mitch

  4. #4
    Daihonmei
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiky View Post
    Hello everyone,

    Though I still read and follow this forum, it's been so many years since I last wrote here. Maybe only the really 'oldtimer' (MikeM or Dick Benbow?) can recall.

    I have a very interesting experience that I would like to share. You see, two year ago I put about 20 pairs of small shrimps ( the ones you usually find in aquariums) into the mat chamber.

    Before long, they have multiplied into several hundreds. Every time I do a backwash, I use a fish net to catch those that are being flushed out, and put them into the pond. My koi gladly chase after, and eat them. Surely they consider that as a treat!

    What's surprising is that, after about a year, the chambers have become so clean that I have never done any cleaning since. All the sludge have just disappeared, eaten by the shrimps I presumed.

    I wonder if any of you has similar experience. Anyone knows what would be the long term effect? Maybe JasPR can answer. Thank you.

    Good Morning, very cool experience! I assume you are talking about ghost shrimp or glass shrimp ( Palaemonetes). These are excellent scavangers for waste but you'd certainly need a large number to clean a filter completely! This is the same illusion that plants give in that BOTH plants and scavangers can do very well when food is available. But just because they both grow and reproduce does not mean that the nutrient source and species are in equilibrium. In short, there is far more nitrAte and Feces/mulm in a koi pond than the subjects could remove.
    Having said that, I think it is great that you have a beneficial species within your filter. Do remember they are also part of the biological load and as such need to be watched. A parasite treatment for instance, will kill them all at once ( the compounds that stop parasites from growing their ectoskeleton will also effect your shrimp as will other compounds such as chelated copper and likely PP). So you have a benefit from these little cleaning crews and also some added concerns/ considerations.
    In the end, I think that flourishing invert populations ( of certain types) in your pond is a sign of good mellow water and I have no doubt they breed like crazy in your filters.
    Meanwhile the beneficial bacteria species can often lead to biofouling and your shrimp might be helping in reducing that condition. very cool. JR

  5. #5
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Hi, Kiky. It is good to have you post. I'm sure your koi enjoy having a treat of live shrimp. I have often thought about getting feeder Glass shrimp for my koi, but have not done it. It would take quite a lot to make a meal, and I don't know if they would be sucked into the filters before the fish were able to eat them. Now you have me thinking that it would be worth trying just to see what happens.

    I am wondering what type of shrimp you have. There are several being kept in aquaria these days. I have kept the so-called 'Flower Shrimp', which can become 10cm or more. I do not think they would work well in a koi pond because they are 'filter feeders'. There is a 'Cherry Shrimp' that I want to add to one of my tanks, but it houses some loaches that have been there over 10 years. They make short work of shrimp, and I owe it to them to keep them as long as they live. I keep a variety of what we call 'Amano' shrimp in the U.S. They often have young, but I've not had any survive. The fish eat the young very quickly. (What we call Glass Shrimp do not survive much more than a year in my aquaria.)

    I had more interesting types of creatures when I had a filter using mats. Now that I use moving kaldnes, I do not get anything much, except the worrisome freshwater sponge that seems to like the dark interior of the pipes, and ferns that like the Bakki Shower.

  6. #6
    Oyagoi
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    I have always wondered about doing this.I do not have a long filter chamber and run bead filters and such.So for me not an option as i am sure some would escape and get to filter area and plug up laterals and and just lead to dieing off.

    would even thiink certain designs using pumps can also cause a few problems.BUT with some people switching to all airlifts i think the shrimp maybe a better option.no proppeler to grind them or even kill them.using airlifts would keep them alive in the whole system.
    using a pump would have to have like an eazy before pump to keep them alive but lose the self feeding aspect a airlift could do without an eazy
    Paul Korf

    member of:
    Midwest Pond and Koi Society
    Louisville Koi club
    IKONA

  7. #7
    Daihonmei
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    Morning Mike, I also keep an amano aquarium with Japonica shrimp--
    But what Kiky describes is more like a marine system with a refrugium - whish is an ISOLATION area within the greater closed system. In that kind of set up I grow caulerpa and produce tons of Copepods. A percentage work their way into the main tank but the core breeding population keeps the gift of continually giving! My plump mandarins, dragonets and sea horse babies are proof positive!
    I've often toyed with the idea of creating a proper refugium for my koi pond *( now that I'm making plans to sell the house that will have to wait until my new pond!). The idea would be a 'better bog' than the water garden concept. But a plan and invest core would be the idea along with 'unpopulated' water volume to the overall system. The reason I laided off this idea a decade or so ago is because Toshio Sakai talked me out of. I see that Momotaro has also given up on the very same idea? the reason is, in the freshwater setting, unlike the marine setting, the biomass to volume ratio is very high. And addition biology only brings the system closer to the edge. Whereas even in normally stocked marine systems the actual biomass/water volume ratio is tiny. Knowing murphy, and his law, you don't want too massive a biomass should energy be cut to the system- can you say Portuguese Bouillabaisse!!!

  8. #8
    Daihonmei
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    By the way Kiky, live shrimp ( not brine it has little in the way of nutrition compared to other shrimp, krills and plantkon) are very nutritious.


    Not that you need any help, but I thought you'd find this breeding primer of interest--- How to Breed Freshwater Ghost Shrimp | eHow.com

  9. #9
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Crayfish

    Years ago I kept Crayfish in a 1000 gallon poly tank that was connected to my pond's filter system.

    Warning: The problem with keeping Crayfish or other crustaceans (like shrimp) in a Koi pond system is whenever you treat the pond for anchor worm and/or fish lice you have to remove them.


  10. #10
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=JasPR;178037]Morning Mike, I also keep an amano aquarium with Japonica shrimp--
    But what Kiky describes is more like a marine system with a refrugium - whish is an ISOLATION area within the greater closed system. In that kind of set up I grow caulerpa and produce tons of Copepods. A percentage work their way into the main tank but the core breeding population keeps the gift of continually giving! My plump mandarins, dragonets and sea horse babies are proof positive!

    My Japonica shrimp are in a plant tank, but not Amano-style. They are kept with my guppies. ...My degenerated half-black red guppies have been eliminated. Visitors liked them, but I just saw how far downhill they haf gone. My Christmas present to myself was a couple of trios of a half-black yellow that throws gold bodies. So, I got a trio of gold-bodied and a trio of normal bodied. Brunettes and blonds, but the same yellow tail. Any baby shrimp will be gone in minutes.

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