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Thread: Matsunsuke X SFF

  1. #1
    Sansai sundan's Avatar
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    Matsunsuke X SFF

    Russell Peters just got back from INC and reported this "On our trip here in October I mentioned that some changes were going to be happening with some of the INC Koi. Toshi is eventually going to be taking over the business and with that he started, a few years ago, working on their breeding program. One of the things he is interested in is changing the body style on their Koi. Matsunosuke Koi are known for growing long and have skinnier bodies at first. It takes time for them to bulk up. What if you could have the Matsunosuke bloodline with a SFF body frame? Toshi had a very successful spawn, last year, with a line of Kohaku that have these traits. This is the first of these Kohaku so we have yet to see what will happen to them over time but right now it looks very promising and is very exciting".

    What are your thought on this cross? I want to be first in line to purchase when they are ready.

  2. #2
    Nisai Kentucky Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundan View Post
    Peter Russell just got back from INC and reported this "On our trip here in October I mentioned that some changes were going to be happening with some of the INC Koi. Toshi is eventually going to be taking over the business and with that he started, a few years ago, working on their breeding program. One of the things he is interested in is changing the body style on their Koi. Matsunosuke Koi are known for growing long and have skinnier bodies at first. It takes time for them to bulk up. What if you could have the Matsunosuke bloodline with a SFF body frame? Toshi had a very successful spawn, last year, with a line of Kohaku that have these traits. This is the first of these Kohaku so we have yet to see what will happen to them over time but right now it looks very promising and is very exciting".

    What are your thought on this cross? I want to be first in line to purchase when they are ready.
    I read this a while back as well Dan. I think if he can make it work out, it will be quite an achievement. Especially if he can put it into the matsunosuke sanke..... need I say more?

    -Eric

  3. #3
    Daihonmei
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    Is there such a thing as a Matsunosuke kohaku? I've heard of Matsunosuke sanke but not matsunosuke kohaku? Pink beni yes, line, Mmmmmm. JR

  4. #4
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    I think there is always pressure on the next generation of family businesses to improve upon the foundation provided by their parents.
    Wasn't that long ago that many believed the magic would disappear when Mano-san from Daiinichi passed. Well we know that didn't happen and I'm sure Toshi is quite capable of also contributing to the next generation of
    matsunosuke.

    Over the decades in both Koi and Bonsai, I have learned the value of allowing time to play a part in development. I know in many societies,
    folks would prefer to have it "all" now, but I can see the lessons learned
    in allowing things to progress according to it's own timing.

    Keep in mind where Toshi worked as an apprentice away from his father
    and that will help you to understand what plans he may have for their Kohaku line. I think with the passing of Sakai-san at SFF, Kentaro has also stepped up to continue the wonderful history of their production as makers of AJS champions.
    Dick Benbow

  5. #5
    Jumbo
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    A down side of 'progress' in Koi is that we are losing a lot of the uniqueness of our classic lineages. Competition and market are driving all our Gosanke to have the same characteristics,... as every breeder borrows from the 'hot' breeder at the time.

    It will be interesting to see where we are in 20 years.

    Best Wishes,
    Brady Brandwood

  6. #6
    Sansai
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    Sundan, are you talking about Momotaro's fish? He did that long ago when he bought fish from both Sakai and make his name out of that( I read it at 04 Koi-bito mag)

  7. #7
    Sansai sundan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nguyen4 View Post
    Sundan, are you talking about Momotaro's fish? He did that long ago when he bought fish from both Sakai and make his name out of that( I read it at 04 Koi-bito mag)
    no, my understanding spawning was a cross of Matsunsuke x Sakai Fish Farm SFF of Hiroshima kohaku. some of the cross tosai pictures by Russell Peters.. I do see some sanke in there too...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Matsunsuke X SFF-sff.jpg   Matsunsuke X SFF-sff1.jpg  

  8. #8
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    what I thought about Maeda-san (momotaro) that was unique was his focus on creating his own beni from mixing sanke and kohaku bloodlines.
    This mixture also created genetics to grow large. I still hang on to and read my old Koi Bito magazines. I even hung on to Brian's DVD series and get it out on occassion.

    If I had to pick something that INC is doing now that I'm interested in following, is his marusome sumi on his Shiro Utsuri line.

  9. #9
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    The mixing of Matsunosuke Sanke genetics with other breeders' lines is not new. It has been done by everyone. The 'news' is that INC is heading in a different direction, building on the work of the father.

  10. #10
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Maybe Russell can elaborate more on what hopes Toshi has for the INC farm once he some whats takes over. From my understanding as well as others x breeding Mats and Sensuke is not new....

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