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Thread: Rotary Drum Filtration, is it the future of mechanical filtration?

  1. #101
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Ben: In a perfect world, I would have a sieve on each run from my pond prior to biological (or fines entrapment). Since each filter has it's own pump to operate independently, that would mean 4 sieves if I was sticking to the 4 runs in my current set-up, and 5 if I was upgrading to add a fifth run I'd like to have. That's a lot of sieves! I've no room to do that. It isn't a perfect world. Now, could a RDF unit be utilized to make the system more efficient, or would it compromise the concept of each run being independent? I had to compromise with my pond by having a single large vortex settlement chamber prior to my 2 Nexus units because there was insufficient room to have two settlement chambers. It isn't a perfect world. If I was designing a new pond, I would consider RDF as a part of the system, but I don't think I would want 4 or 5 of them. So, how it would be configured is a question to think through. And, if the RDF proved not to my liking in operation, how would I deal with a retro-fit eliminating it? I've been thinking that an RDF set up in a vortex settlement chamber might be an approach worth considering. The RDF would be better and if it proved unsuitable, there would still be the simple settlement chamber to capture what it will. Not long ago I thought of pond design only from the perspective of 'what I want today'. Now, I'm beginning to think of the need for flexibility so advances can be utilized without tearing up everything. Living in a construction zone is not fun for fish or people.

  2. #102
    Daihonmei
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    as a recap--- like chamber filters, bakki shows, the several variations of rotating drums, physical straining devices etc, --- these things all work. they do what they are designed to do. So at the end of the day it only tends to be the marketing that sinks most of these ideas as once the hyper import of a device is stressed, it becomes a misteaching to the hobby. This is , by the way, why we don't allow dealers to become officers in ZNA chapters yet welcome them as one voice in many that services our membership. in that regard, I hope the importer of this rotary variation will do a lecture at one of our chapters.
    having said that-- a koi pond is about three things:
    1) providing koi with an environment that caters to their needs in a physcial way

    2) the understanding and harnessing of natural biological processes ( this is not a natural pond but a control of natural and omni present biological processes)

    2) an understanding of the chemistry of water and the biochemistry of those processes mentioned in #2

    I think the most worrisome thing about remedies for koi ponds is the larger than wise obsession on clear water. once seen as the 'swimming pool water' mentality, this singular focus runs the risk of muscling water to the desire of beginner keepers-- TO Be able to SEE their koi! And then secondly the idea that clear water is healthy water and source of pride.
    This turns out not to be a panacea as clear water can easily be unhealthy water, water heading for a crash or simply water that is not koi friendly. The poster child for this wrong turn in thinking is the sand filter that once filtered most the ponds of America. This in fact is where the term swimming pool water comes from in the koi hobby.
    Does this mean we need to live with green water? No of course not! Good pond water is naturally clear water as it is completely a working system.
    But here is the thing for the beginner and some intermediate hobbyists to absorb-----
    imagining a pond as being a close body of water that needs to be strained of all dirt and feces so that it is clear like vodka is missing one important reality-- the koi pond is outside and exposed to the outside world, and the biology inside the pond will do what it will do! It lives, competes, multiplies, dies and dumps waste into the water! Even the biofilter is a pollutor of the water!
    So on the chemistry level, posphates, nitrAtes and other fertilizers are constantly building from 'within'. And very little of that has to do with physical mechanical waste separation. This is why a pond can never be totally algae free, and if it is done by chemical means- is an accident waiting to happen. What needs to be done is the 'replacing' of an undesirable species by another species (one we encourage).


    So as a final comment before ending, things like baffles, spinning vortex, spinning drums etc are helpful. But not for the reasons advertised. They, in the end, protect the biofilter and reduce the negative effects of an over active biofilter. This is their contribution and a valid one. In this battle of balance, THE most valuable tool however is the foam fractionation effect of a protein skimmer. But that is another subject. JR

  3. #103
    Oyagoi kingkong's Avatar
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    My most important tool is the vacuum that removes the you know what from the bottom of the tank. Clean bottom..... happy fish, dirty build up of organics bottom.....unhappy fish.

  4. #104
    Oyagoi Flounder's Avatar
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    Found this pic of the RDF waste tray & I understand a little more on the way the waste is removed.



    Norm or John L., can your RDF remove large leaves that enter the pond's bottom drain? I'm gonna take a guess "NO" since the spray bar is on top of the drum and whenever the drum spins for cleaning the leaves will still be in the water level line of the drum.

    Right?

  5. #105
    Oyagoi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flounder View Post
    Found this pic of the RDF waste tray & I understand a little more on the way the waste is removed.



    Norm or John L., can your RDF remove large leaves that enter the pond's bottom drain? I'm gonna take a guess "NO" since the spray bar is on top of the drum and whenever the drum spins for cleaning the leaves will still be in the water level line of the drum.

    Right?
    i would think it would apply to waste of other kinds,never gets claned out unless it gets stuck to the screen to be able to ride the wheel around.

    i would think an upgrade would to be thinking like your household dryer or old water wheel idea<hae cups or baffles to hold onto stuff and ride around till "dumped" out on top

  6. #106
    Nisai APOLONASGR36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flounder View Post
    Found this pic of the RDF waste tray & I understand a little more on the way the waste is removed.



    Norm or John L., can your RDF remove large leaves that enter the pond's bottom drain? I'm gonna take a guess "NO" since the spray bar is on top of the drum and whenever the drum spins for cleaning the leaves will still be in the water level line of the drum.

    Right?
    Wrong.
    The leaves and other debris are sucked and stick to the drum. Also the drum has support ribs inside giving a helping hand up. The water level in the drum is 2'' - 3'' lower than the top of the tray.

    In CFKS I was putting leaves, small twigs and even acorns (which they shouldn't clear your bottom drains' opening) in the intake water only to view them all come out within 2-3 cleaning cycles.
    Sorry you missed the demo.

  7. #107
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Does placing an RDF guarantee a hikkui free koi or costia free pond?

  8. #108
    Tategoi mtsklar's Avatar
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    No, parasites can still be a problem. As for hikkui, who can say what causes that.

  9. #109
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Every bit of improvement in a pond, for me, will help improve on just about anything in the koi's development. An RDF would make fines management an order of magnitude more manageable. But it will not make a pond push-button maintenance-free. It will make a pond more manageable, and more time can be spent on other areas. You still need to make water changes, still need to spend time observing your koi and catch tell tale signs of koi sickness. Still need to check water parameters. But it will lessen the boring and tedious routine of cleaning mechanical and biofilter chambers. In my case, when my RDF gets installed, I will still be removing sump settlement, and I will still need to clean my static k1 media bed.

    I fear that hikkui will have a higher likelihood of happening when the pond is left to deteriorate due to poor maintenance. When.waste is allowed to accumulate, pathogens quickly multiply and cause stress on koi. When this condition occurs a lot, the skin development suffers together with other areas of koi development. This opens the door to various skin problems such as hikkui.

    The koi keeper should already know how to maintain a pond even without an RDF. The RDF will only make it easier. But starting out with an RDF may make it as simply a crutch for the keeper, and if the keeper fails by letting the small cracks slip thru, he will still have problems, hikkui being the least of them.

  10. #110
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    The reason why I asked is that I was informed Hikkui was present in several koi in a honbyist pond with an RDF, weekly flush of bio and daily good percentage of water change. Makes me wonder if perhaps a little waste to promote some beneficial swimming bacteria and algae tint in the water column may be better than achieving a crystal clear water.

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