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Thread: Aerator and DOC's

  1. #1
    Oyagoi
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Forreston,IL
    Posts
    1,073

    Aerator and DOC's

    Okay after at my last "live"event i was talking with Mike Hernandaz about my pond and such.now i have known i need to get some kind of current in my pond.
    either with aerator and/or current from pumps.
    so been playing around with a small submersible and/or air pump i use for outdoor pond in winter.

    Now the question i have is during my playing with the air and maybe someone can do some expeirments for me.I do not have a clarity or any DIY version as just seem like i do not get any kind of bubbles from waterfall or such that have any "last to them"

    but questions a rise from when i had in airstone.now i did not get the bubbles lasting on surface at start up but over the next day i seemed to get some that would get what 5-7 feet away from uprising as it went across pond surface.
    so has i sat and watched from the start i could see some junk floating/swirling around in the pond.so now i am beginning to wonder is the aerator throwing some waste around that is semi floating and getting lifted cause of air on bottom drain instead of going right down drain? and keeps getting swirled and beat up into smaller pieces until it gets to some DOC level as it breaks down by bacteria floating with the waste?
    got a few bubbles at waterfall area but nothing major.now i took out the air and everything went back to normal in a few days.
    so now wondering if i get solids to stay more together and with my almost daily backwashing of my ulitmas i am getting it away fast enough.now i understand my ultimas may cause waste breakage but maybe not as bad as the aerator or to a lesser degree that the bio is taking care of what little is reaching bio stage( aerated K1)

    so wondering if anyone wants to do a test for me.would like to see indoor but maybe more outdoor ponds try this.I am wondering if turning off the air does anything to FF output.now i am not talking minutes after shut off but maybe day or 2 or week.
    or even shut both off for few days then start up the FF unit again and see what happens without the air in days again.

    so guessing not many want to try and test is tough to be controlled with changing weather and such but just a best guess on my thoughts.

    even with your thoughts i would like to know little about your filtration(needs to be up to par for this test i feel)and pond size depth and such



    WARNING to WAY HOT weather people please do not try as turning off air may not be a good thing for the fish right now.

    so if anyone and hopefully more then one will try this for me and post thoughts after test it would be neat to see.usually i am way off base but just something going through my head as i play with my pond.
    Paul Korf

    member of:
    Midwest Pond and Koi Society
    Louisville Koi club
    IKONA

  2. #2
    Tategoi bobbysuzanna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    411
    I have found an aerated bottom drain definitely increases the yield from my foam fractionator. I do think it increases the circulation of waste of the bottom and into my skimmer. I have a conical shaped 4500 gallon pond with a 100 lpm aerator on my bottom drain, if I turn the aerator off even for a few hours when I restart the aerator I can see small bits of debris being churned up and see a subsequent increase in the FF output. Keep in mind I do feed heavily and do frequent water changes.

  3. #3
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Davenport, Oklahoma
    Posts
    6,726
    I think what you are observing is pretty common Paul. The sweeping action an aerated bottom drain creates does draw solid wastes toward the drain more aggressively, but some of the "lighter" bits of flotsam can definitely be swept into the up-flow they generate.

    I think it might be that a little fine tuning could minimize the issue. Bottom drains are only going to pull as much as the draw down of the pump circuit they are feeding, so the air dome merely accelerates the sweeping toward the drain. If it is too high for the drain to keep up with the amount of debris swept upward may outweigh its usefulness and simply dialing it back a bit might take care of it.

    For example, if your BD is drawing 3500gph but the air dome is accelerating the current toward the drain to 7500gph the updraft becomes greater than the downward flow to the drain and sweeps more solids upward. Reducing the airflow by 20% might bring the flow "equilibrium" back into balance and allow the downward flow to the drain to stay ahead better.
    Just a guess.
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  4. #4
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,642
    DOCs are naturally attrached to oxygen on the molecular level. There are many ways to introduce the oxygen loving organic to the surface of a bubble.
    You can:
    inject very tiny bubbles in the water column
    collide water to create bubbles and froth
    introduce air under pressure to water
    create counter counter situations ( another form of collision)
    drop water from height ( as in FFs)

    All of these things collect DOC and carry it to the surface of the pond water/ atmosphere interface. From there, if it is 'reintroduced' to another 'attractive force of oyygen' and it will compound the effect.
    But truthfully, an efficient protein skimmer/foam fractionator needs only one pass.
    In a system I designed about a few months ago, I introduced prefiltered water in PVC columns that ran ( water 'fell' really) to within 6 inches of the bottom of the first stage. This created collision and lots of bubbles in the submerged portion of the pipe opening . The first stage was fitted with a high class pinwheel injection pump design, mounted under a cone shaped column for maximum fomate production ( I mean, you can 'shave' with this stuff!!) . The result is crystal clear water. But more importantly, water that is low in organic content-- very low. JR

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