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Thread: virus following spawning damage?

  1. #1
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    pacific northwest, USA
    Posts
    177

    virus following spawning damage?

    Hi:

    I just netted up my 2 year old Kohaku, which had a very rough week. Here's the background:

    The Kohaku spent the last year in quarantine/growout. Most of that with a Kujaku that was a long time member of the main herd.

    The kohaku was added in with the main herd on June 18th. There is a fish in that herd (not the Kujaku) that showed a waxy facial growth about 2 years ago. It disappeared when the water warmed, and I haven't seen it again. Temps have ranged from 64degF to 72degF.

    On July 5th or 6th, spawning wrecked havoc on the water parameters: NH3 = 0ppm, NO2- @ 0.5ppm, NO3- @ ~20ppm

    I salted to 0.12% and started water changes.

    July 8th NO2- back down to undetectable.

    Since then, back to the usual: 10% water changes every 2nd or 3rd day, NO3- around 5 - 10ppm, KH 3 - 4 drops (yes, I do this on purpose...). Lots of air (Sieve + Hakko 120), a mix of bead, upflow media filter and the very recent addition of a moving bed.

    This evening I saw the following two symptoms on this Kohaku

    #1 A localized, waxy, raised deposit on her head
    #2 Two bruises on her back (near the 'bridge' in beni plates)

    My hypothesis is a viral infection, spread by a latent, but frisky male, coupled with bruises acquired in spawning. The virus took hold because of the stress.

    I have fish in my indoor tank, one of which is getting at the 4 week point in quarantine. I'm planning on scraping the new addition and one of the canary fish, and if everything is kosher, adding the Kohaku in with them. This will give me the ability to heat the tank up (no heat outside, and it has been a VERY cold and wet winter in the PacNW). I'm thinking a strong salt dip before adding her might help in sloughing the damaged skin.

    Setting up another tank will be really tough right now, as I still only have limited use of my left hand as it recuperates from reconstructive surgery...

    I'm heartbroken because I really feel this is a show quality fish (her body is awesome), and I don't know if she'll ever heal up right.

    Any other suggestions or interpretations?

    Thanks,

    -t
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails virus following spawning damage?-koh1.jpg   virus following spawning damage?-koh2.jpg  

  2. #2
    Oyagoi gcuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Maple Falls, WA
    Posts
    1,620
    No recommendations Ted, just wanted to say it sucks... I've seen this fish in person, both when he bought her, and at a recent show. Super nice koi. Hope things work out with her.

    Grant

  3. #3
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    pacific northwest, USA
    Posts
    177
    Hi:

    Thanks Grant, I appreciate the sentiment, it's kind of you to say.

    A quick update.

    This actually went down Friday night (the 15th), so yesterday morning I had a fortuitous chance to consult with the local experts. Everyone agreed with limiting it to the salt bath + heated growout tank, so I felt pretty good about that. No one had seen this exact type of growth before (including folks that have handled thousands - probably millions - of koi), which was a little frustrating.

    However, I've been told that similar types of surface growths have occasionally popped up on fish that have been moved to the PacNW from more tropical climates. These usually clear after a couple of weeks.

    So, on Saturday afternoon, I pulled her out of the 64degF pond, floated her for 15 minutes, then gave her a 3 - 5 minute dip in ~2% (1# salt/5 gallon) salt. The growth seemed to get a little cloudier during the dip, although it's tough to say, she got pretty agitated after the first minute.

    Now she's been in the indoor tank (at 73degF) for a day. She's acting pretty normal, eating well, smooth swimming, so I'm hoping for the best. I can't tell if there's any obvious change in her "growth" yet, but she seems to have perked up a little.

    I'll probably start bumping the heat a little bit in the next few days, but I'll avoid doing another salt bath until I either see the "rash" progress or a change in her behavior.

    I'm still very interested in hearing people's thoughts on what this might be, or if they've actually seen it before.

    Thanks,

    -t

  4. #4
    Nisai kaidoi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    60
    I use to have a Sanke who would occasionally get a heavy mucus patch on his head that looked like your Kohaku's "waxy, raised deposit." However, the patch was 1/10th of the size of your Kohaku's. In my case, it turned out to be Hikkui. You can tell if it is Hikkui by dabbing the patch with a paper towel. If blood shows up on the paper towel, then it is most likely Hikkui.

    Hope this helps. Good luck with your koi......

  5. #5
    Nisai
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    100
    Quote Originally Posted by webted View Post
    Hi:

    Thanks Grant, I appreciate the sentiment, it's kind of you to say.

    A quick update.

    This actually went down Friday night (the 15th), so yesterday morning I had a fortuitous chance to consult with the local experts. Everyone agreed with limiting it to the salt bath + heated growout tank, so I felt pretty good about that. No one had seen this exact type of growth before (including folks that have handled thousands - probably millions - of koi), which was a little frustrating.

    However, I've been told that similar types of surface growths have occasionally popped up on fish that have been moved to the PacNW from more tropical climates. These usually clear after a couple of weeks.

    So, on Saturday afternoon, I pulled her out of the 64degF pond, floated her for 15 minutes, then gave her a 3 - 5 minute dip in ~2% (1# salt/5 gallon) salt. The growth seemed to get a little cloudier during the dip, although it's tough to say, she got pretty agitated after the first minute.

    Now she's been in the indoor tank (at 73degF) for a day. She's acting pretty normal, eating well, smooth swimming, so I'm hoping for the best. I can't tell if there's any obvious change in her "growth" yet, but she seems to have perked up a little.

    I'll probably start bumping the heat a little bit in the next few days, but I'll avoid doing another salt bath until I either see the "rash" progress or a change in her behavior.

    I'm still very interested in hearing people's thoughts on what this might be, or if they've actually seen it before.

    Thanks,

    -t
    just bumping it back up so someone will hopfully have some answer
    Last edited by rekoil; 07-18-2011 at 08:28 PM. Reason: spelling

  6. #6
    Nisai
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    100
    my self id put a good pp paste on it used it for years never hurt my show fishes skin

  7. #7
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    pacific northwest, USA
    Posts
    177
    Hi all:

    I thought I'd add a little update. I know I generally enjoy hearing stories like these.

    To recap:

    July 15th - facial growths on fish seen
    July 16th - netted up, ~2.0% (w/v) salt bath, moved to 72degF Q-tank
    July 20th - looking better (picture added)
    July 31st - looking good (last picture), another 2% salt bath, returned to main herd

    Thanks to everyone that offered advice or encouragement - I was pleased to see that she responded so well to a relatively minimalistic treatment.

    With regards,

    -t
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails virus following spawning damage?-koh3.jpg   virus following spawning damage?-koh4.jpg  

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