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Thread: Feeding yogurt to Koi?

  1. #21
    Meg
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    Oyagoi Meg's Avatar
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    depends..was it Activia or Gogert?

  2. #22
    Tosai
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    Partially but I was thinking of that the bacteria in the yogurt isnt as active at 72 degrees as it may be at 98.6 degrees, therefore less effective. Or am I completely confused?

    Raymond.


    Quote Originally Posted by mtsklar View Post
    Raymond,

    I assume you are referring to the bacteria in the gut. More to the point the effect of temperature on digestion is not so much the bacterial activity.

    Additionally temperature and protein content are not correlated.

    Where temperature has an effect is on the metabolic rate of the fish. Colder temps mean slower metabolic activity.

    So at 72F the transit time through the gut is just over an hour and at 48F the transit time is 100 hours.

  3. #23
    Tategoi Yamato's Avatar
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    Yogurt

    Dear Paul (Paultergeist),
    Thanks for posting my question.I just posted a new topic. Decided to do some research on the subject.
    For those that dont know, I am the one that posted about yogurt.
    I will re[post my research here, I am just quoting. None of it comes from me.
    Mark, yamato= Neli from Zambia. Your friend on FB. I personally respect U a lot, and know that when U are talking about Koi, u know what U are saying.
    U dont know how I was abused on my regular forum for suggesting that yogurt should be fed to Koi.
    Thanks for mentioning that Momotaro feeds it to their Koi.It is not only momotaro, most Japanese do, including the big boss of ZNA.
    There is just too much scientific research about it, that is very convincing.Just too many studies and research done, that I can not mention them all.
    This is what I found :

    lactobacillus:

    Link to benefits of probiotics and lactobacillus strains.
    epubs.icar.org.in/ejournal/index.php/IJF...e/download/6946/2679
    Here is scientific data, a study done on the effect of lactobacillus on fish.
    Proper scientific study and this is what they say:
    -these bacteria can be useful as
    probiotics in freshwater fish culture.
    -Both Lactobacillus sp. P21 and Bacillus
    sp. P43 exhibited pronounced in vitro inhibitory
    action on many of the opportunistic pathogens
    including Aeromonas spp. and Pseudomonas
    spp. isolated from diseased C. auratus, possibly
    by the production of bacteriocin-like substance
    -The results
    show that the Bacillus sp. P43 and Lactobacillus
    sp. P21 confer benefit to C. auratus and
    X. helleri when administered as probiotics in
    water. Both Lactobacillus sp. P21 and Bacillus
    sp. P43 exhibited pronounced in vitro inhibitory
    action on many of the opportunistic pathogens
    including Aeromonas spp. and Pseudomonas
    spp. isolated from diseased C. auratus, possibly
    by the production of bacteriocin-like substance
    -There was a general reduction in
    bacterial counts with storage in all feeds
    -results suggest that the Lactobacillus sp. may be
    suitable as probiotics and / or biocontrol agents
    in freshwater ornamental fish culture.
    Here it is a reference PDF on probiotics and their ability to suppress aeronomas V=vibrio=aeronoma:
    These bacteria often produce
    bacteriocins and other chemical compounds that may inhibit the growth of
    pathogenic bacteria. The probiotic bacteria isolated can also inhibit the
    growth of fish pathogens such as V , anguillarum and A. salmonicida (Gildberg
    et al., 1995)
    Link:
    ietd.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/773/8/08_chapter%202.pdf
    it contains very good info on pathogens too.
    This is what they say:
    -
    Colonization of the fish digestive tract b y bacteria ~ a p a b l e of producing
    lactic acid fermentation may inhibit the proliferation of putrefactive microbes in
    that site, thus protecting the host (fish) from diseases caused by toxins generated by
    proteolytic bacteria.
    -. The inhibitory effect of lactic acid bacteria against fish pathogen is not
    limited to strains isolated in fish. Many lactic acid bacteria produce inhibitory
    compounds against A. hydrophila (Lewus et al., 1991; Santos et al., 1996).
    Cereal grains fermented with lactic acid bacteria, limited the bacterial growth in
    the enrichment medium of rotifers (Gatesoupe et al., 1989, 1990).
    -Inhibitory effects of fish gut flora on bacterial pathogens A.
    salmonicida, V. ordalii, V. anguillarum, V. salmonicida have also be en reported
    in other studies. (Onarheim and Raa, 1990; Westerdahl et al., 1991, 1994;
    Olsson et al., 1992; Austin et al., 1995; Bergh, 1995). The fact that fish have a
    gut flora with inhibitory effects against pathogens may have relevance to fish
    health
    -The immunological properties of probiotic bacteria have been extensively
    studied; certain LAB such as Lactobacillus casei, L. rhamnosus a n d L.
    plantarum enhance both systemic and mucosal immunity (Perdigon et al., 1999;
    2001).
    -
    In recent years, there has been a growing interest in combating or
    controlling disease problems through alternative husbandry methods. One
    method is the use of antagonistic bacterial strains to control populations of
    potential pathogens through competitive exclusion or enhancement of immunity.
    In aquaculture, this may be achieved by maintenance of balanced populations
    of bacteria and by the use of defined probiotics in a number of ways such as
    enrichment of larval food, inclusion in the diet or addition to the water, as a
    remediation agent.
    -The use of lactic acid bacteria (LAB) as probiotics
    (Gatesoupe, 1991, 1994, 1999; Ringo and Gatesoupe, 1998; Robertson et al.,
    2000; Vershuere et al., 2000) and non-specific immunostimulants (Robertson et
    al., 1990; Anderson, 1992) has been proposed, in addition to the effort t o
    improve water quality (Vadstein et al., 1993; Skjermo and Vadstein, 1999) and
    nutrition (Ronnestad et al., 1999), as a means to increase larval survival and
    aquaculture output. Probiotic products are usually standardized based on the
    presumption that the culture viability is a reasonable measure of their activity
    I did a search:
    Google

    and found so many scientific studies on the benefits of lactobacillus and yeas to fish. Just too many.
    So please dont spit on my yogurt, eat it and soak your pellets in it at list ones a week, since it can survive in the gut up to 14 days.

  4. #24
    Tosai kishusui1's Avatar
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    ''youghurt ''

    I have been useing youghurt over 34 years of all types of fish keeping and the results show for them selfs ,it has been used in fish keeping for more decades than i can recall as my father used it and his also so more than 100 year in my family of just keeping tropical fish alone !.
    I was told by my grandad when i was a lad he had been given this I dear from a fellow merchant sea man who was dutch by birth but lived in Essex in south benfleet and had used it to breed some of the best he had ever reared !
    so as i discovered the health benifits first with cichlids in the early 70's I have used it ever since in all my fish breeding and Marine breeding of Tomatoe clowns !.
    and with many sanke,shusui,kinki utsuri,ki shusui ,midori goi ,aya wakabas !
    I'm very pleased with the results as the fry are all stronger and fast growing without any doubt my fish had got to 5-6 incheds in ten weeks !
    enough said .''I have to laugh as koi keepers just don't accept this ''
    and Tropical fish breeders across the world including Japan use it every day as a feed and as a spin off filter maintance !lol !!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Feeding yogurt to Koi?-dsc01986.jpg   Feeding yogurt to Koi?-dsc01963.jpg   Feeding yogurt to Koi?-dsc01596.jpg   Feeding yogurt to Koi?-45.jpg   Feeding yogurt to Koi?-dsc01799.jpg  

    Feeding yogurt to Koi?-dsc01776.jpg   Feeding yogurt to Koi?-dsc01769.jpg  

  5. #25
    Tategoi
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    Quote Originally Posted by kishusui1 View Post
    ...........
    and Tropical fish breeders across the world including Japan use it every day as a feed and as a spin off filter maintance !lol !!
    the fish photos look very nice, and I understand that some folks have had good results with food which included some yoghurt, but.....what do you mean by "a spin off filter maintenance?"

  6. #26
    Tosai kishusui1's Avatar
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    Clean filters

    I use one table spoon per 1000 gallons mixed in a 2 gallon bucket of pond water and poured into the filter once per month (summer only )
    fish tanks one tea spoon per week for four weeks then one per month !
    Well after useing it for the past 41 years as a lad with my guppy tank cleaning was a thing of the past as it promotes bacteria that keep the filtration clean ,and I have used it on my ponds to combat this over 34 years !
    it works fact and its not a new thing i'm just telling people it will do the job and help maintain live water and keep good water quality which is what we all need at the end of the day !
    I have seen the results and benifits thats why i use it and yes my grandad told me this secret and its good stuff !
    I don't want anybody to think they have to use it its what i do and its my way i keep all fish ! and it certainly works well on keeping things clean from fish tank to pond and also in saltwater tanks .
    its been around a long time !

    Fact not internet fiction ,koi keepers reject it well thats your right as a individual ,and that's it but tropical fish keepers have used this for decades with good results !.

    all the best and happy fish keeping !

  7. #27
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Howdy Paul.

    You aren't the first to mention Yogurt as a Pellet soak here and I'm sure I brought it up over yonder several years ago as well.

    First off, it is a mistake to assume "Good for Me = Good for Koi".
    It is equally foolish to presume "Bad for me = Bad for Koi".

    I originally brought it up before hearing about Momotaro and have long considered probiotics to be advisable for Koi that are receiving antibiotic treatments. Broad spectrum antibiotics are indiscriminate and can easily ruin the natural flora in the digestive tract which only adds to the metabolic stress of a fish fighting to heal itself.

    With so many Koi foods already incorporating probiotics into their formulaitons it is tough to play with re-inventing the wheel, but availability can make a "yogurt soak" a viable alternative.
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  8. #28
    Tategoi
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    Hi-ya Larry,

    I must confess that I thought the idea sounded a bit far-fetched when I first heard about it, but as the responses reveal, there are a considerable number who believe that the pro-biotics concept has considerable merit for Koi and fish nutrition.

    As to the inclusion of yogurt specifically, again I am surprised that this is being suggested as strongly as it it. The questions that pop into my mind are: Assuming that -- by feeding the right kind of yogurt to fish, we are offering lactobacillus bacteria to colonize the fish intestine -- can those lactobacillus sustain themselves with the ingredients typically found in normal fish food (or does the survival of the lactobacillus then require the regular addition of yogurt as a source of lactose)? If the yogurt is being fed strictly as a means to colonize the *beneficial* bacteria into the fish gut, are there more direct ways of doing this? In other words: is it the yogurt, the bacteria *in* the yogurt, or both? I have not read through the references listed earlier, and maybe these issues have already been more explored.

    As for myself, I am afraid that trying to get my pond liner installed before the winter rains hit here in Southern California has my full attention, and any digging I might do into the rationale behind advanced feeding strategies will probably have to wait.

    Paul

  9. #29
    Tategoi
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    Quote Originally Posted by kishusui1 View Post
    I use one table spoon per 1000 gallons mixed in a 2 gallon bucket of pond water and poured into the filter once per month (summer only )
    fish tanks one tea spoon per week for four weeks then one per month !
    Well after useing it for the past 41 years as a lad with my guppy tank cleaning was a thing of the past as it promotes bacteria that keep the filtration clean ,and I have used it on my ponds to combat this over 34 years ! !
    You are dicussing a different facet of this yogurt idea -- that is, that it somehow benefits the bio-filters themselves. Any idea how this is so? What was your cleaning regime before adding yogurt vs. after adding yogurt?


    Quote Originally Posted by kishusui1 View Post
    from fish tank to pond and also in saltwater tanks .
    its been around a long time !

    Fact not internet fiction ,koi keepers reject it well thats your right as a individual ,and that's it but tropical fish keepers have used this for decades with good results !.
    Hmmmm......Well, I have been a tropical fish keeper for "decades," and I have not encountered this idea previously, so I have to question whether the idea is as well-established as you imply. If the idea is wide-spread among the tropical fish community "for decades," certainly comparitive studies have been conducted? I would also assume that some of the mechanism behind why this may be a benefit would be known?

    I would like more info......

  10. #30
    Oyagoi
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    i wonder if we are talking yogurt but really missing the real product that sounds alot like yogurt

    Yakult

    Yakult USA

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