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Thread: What are these kois?

  1. #1
    Tosai
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    11

    What are these kois?

    Hello, can you help me identify what varieties are these? They are all tosais around 20-24 cms. Don't know if they are Hajiro or Matsukawabake. Thanks :-)



  2. #2
    Nisai
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    59

    Smile

    hello showwafanatic!
    I think that B is a shiro utsuri, and D is a matsukawabake(i may have spelled it wrong) A and C i am not sure . One thing I really like about B is that its sumi is very solid! If it develops more pattern you will have a very nice fish!

  3. #3
    Tosai
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    can anyone post pics of tosai matsukawabake or hajiro? Someone said that B is a Hajiro, realy getting confusing to me

  4. #4
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Dec 2003
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    Orlando, Florida
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    It is easy to become confused about tosai blank and white tosai if the parents are unknown. If all of these are from a shiro x shiro span, all could be shiro with different degrees of sumi at different stages of development. For show purposes, it does not matter what the underlying genetics are. Classification by the benching team is based on the phenotype on the day. So, D is Hajiro and B is Shiro Utsuri today. A and C are too undeveloped to show. A and C can be labeled Matsukawabake for now, but may be Shiro Utsuri in 6 months. Does that mean the fish changed varieties? ...Yes and no. The answer is 'yes' to the extent that the label changes. The answer is 'no' in the sense that the fish was always what it became in the natural development process. Although Matsukawabake is a changeable fish with the black patterning coming and going with the seasons, there are a lot of Matsukawabake that become solid black and cease changing (or, at least, do not change noticeably for several years). These can become labeled as Hajiro; and, indeed, they are Hajiro based on their appearance. In koi, varietal labels are all about appearance.

    Is that confusing? Think about this: What is a Shiro Utsuri with such heavy sumi that it looks like Hajiro?

  5. #5
    Fry
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1
    Hi,

    I'm just new in this site. You can use this link for your reference. Koi Pictures Alphabetically

    Sikkoi..

  6. #6
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,642
    you need to keep in mind that koi varieties come in three or four ( depending how you want to 'slice and dice' the varieties) different fundamental ways

    1) some varieties are unique in and of themselves. they tend to breed as true as nishikigoi can be-- that is a high percentage of young are the same look as the parents. This is simple genetics and a domination of certain mutation genes over other mutation genes

    2) other varieties are really just a combination of other breeds. And as such, the very best specimens are a hybrid of two other gene pools that create a mixed look to an individual fish. In this case, all the 'lemons' need to line up on the one armed bandit! It is a selection of the young from such a spawn that give the impression of a 'breed'.

    3) still other koi varieties ( especially the primitive ones like those from the karsu goi clan) are really 'degrees' of domination of the same color genes. In otherwords, depending on HOW the very same genes are expressed, the ffish takes on a slightly different but repeating look that we then give a name to. The fish you illustrate belong to this group and are really the same koi with varying amounts of white spreading genes and so predictable variations and given all the names of the karasu clan lines.

    JR

  7. #7
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    Oct 2004
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    Louisiana - KHA
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    Hajiro are solid black koi with white tipped fins and tail.
    The views expressed above are my own personal views and, as such, do not necessarily reflect the views of the AKCA or the KHA program.
    SANDY

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