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Thread: attempting to evaluate a tosai---

  1. #21
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by pskorf View Post
    I know Koi Acres as been building mud ponds again this fall.so they could be a Japanese importer with mud ponds.
    Yes that is possible. Time will tell

  2. #22
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutuscz View Post
    It is all very true. I just purchased a 27in female showa from Purdin this season. Looking for your dollar buddy. A few others are doing well also. I think Brady and Rich R. are also breeding very well. The American breeders will keep improving...the sky is the limit. A 90 cm gosanke of great quality will happen, it is just a question of who and when. I also think some Japanese breeders will have interests in American koi farms in the future. I know Suda has their association with Blackwater creek. I think that it may be for financial reasons...but, we will all benefit from it. The Japanese may own the high class koi market...but, wouldn't it be interesting to see them expand overseas? To see top Dainichi Oyagoi used for breeding in the U.S. would be very exciting. With $$$ all things are possible. What is your opinion of this possibility JR?
    anything is possible, but why would the japanese breeders want to come to the states? it would almost be like starting over but with excellent oyagoi. Japan is the birth place of nishkigoi, to come to the states and figure out all of the different parameters such as water,soil,weather,CULTURE, etc.... seems to me that they have the koi market by the b***s and why try changing what is good? i totally understand growth and expansion but they already produce enough fish to please just about any and all levels of koi hobbyists world wide. don't get me wrong i would love to be able to visit a farm owned by dainichi but i don't see that possible.

  3. #23
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben5020 View Post
    why would the japanese breeders want to come to the states?
    Save on shipping Koi costs.

  4. #24
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    Let's not forget what size market America is in the Koi Hobby.

    From what some have said, 20% would be an Exaggeration.

  5. #25
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    Save on shipping Koi costs.
    do they pay to ship there koi here?

  6. #26
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben5020 View Post
    do they pay to ship there koi here?
    In the end it is the consumer that pays for shipping costs.

    As a consumer, would it make a difference to you if you could save money on shipping?

  7. #27
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben5020 View Post
    anything is possible, but why would the japanese breeders want to come to the states? it would almost be like starting over but with excellent oyagoi. Japan is the birth place of nishkigoi, to come to the states and figure out all of the different parameters such as water,soil,weather,CULTURE, etc.... seems to me that they have the koi market by the b***s and why try changing what is good? i totally understand growth and expansion but they already produce enough fish to please just about any and all levels of koi hobbyists world wide. don't get me wrong i would love to be able to visit a farm owned by dainichi but i don't see that possible.
    Why? same reason there is a food with the Dainichi name!! That name sells in the koi world. Suda has an association with blackwater creek...there must be a financial reason. I do not know the details of that relationship. But, wouldn't it be interesting to see other excellent japanese breeders do the same?

  8. #28
    Daihonmei
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    Side bar: there are breeders in Japan and there is a distribution in Japan. Repeat-- breeders and distributors. This goes all the way back to the days of carp breeders and fish mongers- two different careers.
    In the USA some come to think of distributors/dealers as being breeders. They can be very knowledgeable but they are not breeders. They may even do little to correct the image if enough foreigners are willing to see them as being 'inside' the breeding network.
    The structure of the Japanese koi industry used to be rather fixed and strict. And as such, breeders sold to anyone and what they did with the fish was their business. And to this day, you can see the Chiba dealers at many of these breeders’ facilities snapping pictures of the koi that they will send to western dealers and hobbyists. If they buy, the dealer goes back and picks up the koi if it is still there. Often the explanation is the fish has died. This system does require that everyone get paid. Some of these dealers are second generation dealers and quite knowledgeable professional. Others might be students or in one case I know of, an importer/exporter of everything from cement to koi! Doesn’t keep koi, doesn’t know koi beyond a cursory review.
    In the old days there was a simple 30-35% market up to the dealer from the breeder. But today things have changed—the breeders are more business-like are no longer in many cases, just focused on breeding fish and selling off the tosai. Today they businessmen looking to reduce their reliance on middle men. So they have gone direct. And building a network of outlets in other countries is the name of the game. I think this is a less expensive way to go as the dealer is now a minor partner. Trouble is the breeders are discovering that going direct is not a panacea. They are now more libel for the stock they sell. And that can be a pain! If fish are going to be replaced ( unlike the old system where the buyer was responsible once the fish left the shed) then prices have to go up to cover losses. This then can offset the money saved from the bypassing of the middleman/dealer.
    So it’s a real trade off.
    In addition, if the local dealer is a poor koi keeper, the breeder may look for ways to end the relationship as both pocket book and reputation are being effected.

    Do understand that most dealers come to learn that they can break up a shipment of the same grade fish into “ US grades”. Meaning, the fish with good patterns can be sold at a much higher price then their siblings, even though they are the same grade. In addition, some varieties can be marked up higher because they are perceived to be more desirable by the beginners.
    There are indeed, a lot of ways to loose money selling koi! J JR

  9. #29
    Tategoi
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    If I was a Japanese Breeder, I would rather go to China or Mexico. Face it, US is not a place to manufacturer. And I can't find anything with Matt McCann and Scott Purdin in google besides blogs. Do they have a farm or website?

  10. #30
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chang26k View Post
    If I was a Japanese Breeder, I would rather go to China or Mexico. Face it, US is not a place to manufacturer. And I can't find anything with Matt McCann and Scott Purdin in google besides blogs. Do they have a farm or website?
    google for nisei koi, quality koi or purdin koi.

    --D

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