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Thread: What is the optimum shape of a koi pond?

  1. #21
    Lee
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    Mark,



    That is the basis for this question...



    The question was specifically posed in order to obtain the answer to "what shape provides for the most optimum movement of water and the best discharge of waste..."?



    ...as those who come after us and are constructing their first koi pond or their second, or third...are certainly questioning, as I am, what 'shape of pond' allows me to obtain optimum water movement and the quickest and most efficient discharge of waste.



    In respect for those who responded above, we all have a koi pond. Or, will soon have a pond and we all want to acheive maximum flow and maximum movement and maximum discharge of waste.



    Therefore, this answer, I believe, is the single most important issue we have to resolve, when constructing our koi pond



    The answer to this question will then provide all of those who follow us with a guide...to their own pond construction.



    Yes, some koi pond builders may desire for aesthetic reasons a lake like pond or for space constraints a rectangular pond, however, if one was to move these extraneous issues aside, the question still remains - what shape of pond solves our most fundamental problem(s) in keeping koi?



    Answer that 'basic' question and we have acheived a known direction...to offer those who follow.



    Lee

    Grand Cayman

  2. #22
    Jumbo
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    Lee



    If the objective is just to provide optimum water movement for solids removal must surely be achieved in a circular pond with a heavily shelved base to a central drain point.



    Heavy central aeration will drive the water upwards and evenly to the ponds sides before dropping back down taking waste to the drain point.



    However, as i was trying to say above other shapes can provide perfectly suitable levels of efficiency in removing solids rapidly and effectively.



    I guess there are experts in fluid dynamics out there that could model this to show water flows and mixing etc.
    Mark Gardner

  3. #23
    Lee
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    Mark,



    In the final anaylsis isn't our goal to provide our koi an environment that is optimum?



    If we purchase food for our koi, we want the best available. Yes?



    If we provide filtration, we want the best available. Yes?



    If we dig a pond, shouldn't we (also) want the best that is available?



    And, yes - darn it, where are those water dynamic engineers, anyway - when you need them, they're never around.



    Lee

    Grand Cayman

  4. #24
    Sansai Andrew's Avatar
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    Lee,

    If you are qualifying your question to the degree that there are no other considerations then the answer is of course circular with a central bottom drain with the base laid to falls to the drain.

    With respect though, how many koi keepers, particularly first timers have NO other considerations? Things such as, but not limited to, asthetics, physical conditions of site, amount of available space, mains drain positions, costs, preference for volume over flow rate - you don't see many, if any, circular ponds at Japans breeders and dealers.

  5. #25
    Jumbo Bern's Avatar
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    Playing devils advocate here. If our objective is the ultimate environment for our koi, Then surely it's a low stocked mud pond.



    Rgds BERN.

  6. #26
    Tosai Jason Poon's Avatar
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    Hi Lee,



    It is not professional but just an optional idea.



    kidney-shaped is good for fortune in Chinese geomantic omen.

    In details, the interior curvature shall face your usual living area while the exterior facing outward. Moreover the water circulation shall be effective but not making visible and noisy wave.



    Jason

  7. #27
    Lee
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    Dear All,



    My first objective was to determine the optimum shape of a pond.



    Next, I am interested in obtaining from this (hopefully) unbiased readership, the optimum 'in use' filter.



    And, then continue by asking for the optimum used koi food. Etc...



    Hopefully, this exercise will allow us to reach some valued conclusions, not controlled by advertising or other financial gain...



    If honestly tendered I hope that our conclusion will prove an interesting exercise...wherein we might all then learn what the majority of existant koi keepers, like, prefer and would recommend.



    And, not what we are told, sold and/or manipulated to believe is best for us...



    On this Christmas Eve, I send to each of you, my warmest wishes for health, happiness and prosperity...



    ...from your pal,



    Lee

    Cayman Islands

  8. #28
    Jumbo Bern's Avatar
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    Hi Lee, Merry Christmas.



    I think there is a lot to be said for the elongated eggshape. That's basically the shape of the pond I described on an earlier post with the emphasis on the elongated.



    The circular pond mentioned with the central bottom drain etc will turn that pond into a vortex and I don't believe any fish let alone a carp is designed to live in a vortex. The shape may be the best for crap removal but its not an ideal living environment.



    rgds

    BERN

  9. #29
    Lee
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    Yes, I would agree - an elongated egg shape is indeed, the best.



    Especially, if one can rotate the water, in either direction, round and round...



    Thus, following this suggested shape, I believe you do obtain the filtration to bottom drain 'vortex' effect, as well as, superb water movement and the shape can, indeed, 'resemble' that of a rectangle for those seeking that 'classical' formal shape.



    I wholeheartedly agree, it is probably, the very best solution of all...



    I know, it is what I am trying to reproduce in my new pond. Albet with a small island sited at the narrow end which has an existant palm tree that I want to keep exactly where it is now, for shade. And, interest.



    I haven't determined how many bottom drains shall be required nor surface skimmers, nor how many TRP's and whether they need be (dual) directional or not...



    However, I do wish I had someone with more experience than I to lend an experienced voice to each of these decisions (which, this board does provide, does it not.)



    Lee

    Grand Cayman

  10. #30
    MCA
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    again, what is the metric for "best"?

    Lee,



    What metric(s) are to be used?



    I have a problem with the kidney shape. We know that every bend in pipe creates resistance that must be overcome with pump horsepower. In a retangular pond you have 4 "corners" creating the resistance to the flow, even if you round/bench them. In a kidney shape, you reduced the water volume (compared to rectangular) and added the indentations which disturb the water flow.



    If you do a egg-shaped pond, you have to over come the signifcant resistance of the pointed end of the pond. The angle will have be much tighter than 90 degrees and therefore add major resistance. I have yet to understand any advantage to this shape. Maybe visually it is appealing.



    We hope to see you two in Atlanta in a few weeks. Toni is going the koi health event in Athens. I will stay home and mind Dexter.



    MCA

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