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Thread: Can you overdose on Sodium Thiosulfate?

  1. #1
    Nisai
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    Can you overdose on Sodium Thiosulfate?

    I don't trust that such a small amount of stock solution that I premixed can handle so much tap water, especially when it's mixed into the pond, so I try to put more ST into the pond than the tap I put in.

    Lately, for every 300 gallons of tap I put in, I also put in 3/4 a cup of ST stock solution (rated for 1200 gallons). Tonight, while filling up the pond, I got carried away with the yard-work and the pond overfilled for only 5-10 minutes. There wasn't a whole lot of spilled water, but I panicked and put in another 1/2 cup of ST. That means another 900 gallons worth of dechlor. Pond is 1800 gallons. I feel like I can't wrap my mind around how so little an amount of dechlor can get to all that tap water mixed throughout the system.

    I guess my question is- how much more dechlor should I treat the water with to have a safe, but adequate safe-zone incase of a blip in chlorine levels or overfill? Did I put in way too much tonight?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    Can you overdose on Sodium Thiosulfate?



    Can you overdose koi on ST? Sure you can overdose ST, but to make it toxic to the koi you need to be dumping in 5 gallon pales of the stuff. So technically possible, but very unlikely. I heard a rumor years ago someone had a relative who mixed up ST with rock salt and throught they were salting the pond. Another reaon not to salt a pond.

    Personally I never mix up an ST solution. That takes extra effort, bottles for the liquid..etc. IMHO, no need. I only add enough ST crystals to offset the effect (rising ORP) of the chlorine. So I use my calibrated ORP meter to measure the pond water before adding the chlorinated water. The new water is started and mixed in via the currents of the air domes. The ORP will start to rise very slowly. From years of experience with my pond I know that if I add around a dozen of the ST crystals....that will nuke the chlorine in the ~1500 gallons I am adding and mixing over 3-4 hours. A little ST goes a long way.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  3. #3
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    Can you overdose koi on ST? Sure you can overdose ST, but to make it toxic to the koi you need to be dumping in 5 gallon pales of the stuff. So technically possible, but very unlikely. I heard a rumor years ago someone had a relative who mixed up ST with rock salt and throught they were salting the pond. Another reaon not to salt a pond.
    Personally I never mix up an ST solution. That takes extra effort, bottles for the liquid..etc. IMHO, no need. I only add enough ST crystals to offset the effect (rising ORP) of the chlorine. So I use my calibrated ORP meter to measure the pond water before adding the chlorinated water. The new water is started and mixed in via the currents of the air domes. The ORP will start to rise very slowly. From years of experience with my pond I know that if I add around a dozen of the ST crystals....that will nuke the chlorine in the ~1500 gallons I am adding and mixing over 3-4 hours. A little ST goes a long way.
    I am switching over to using Sodium Thiosulfate crystals (straight into the pond).

    1 ounce of Sodium Thiosulfate crystals makes 1 quart of solution.

    I have a digital scale and weigh how much crystals I need. IE: 1 cup of solution is equal to 0.25 ounce of crystals.

    Then throw the crystals into the pond.
    Last edited by ricshaw; 02-14-2012 at 01:41 AM. Reason: clean-up & make clearer

  4. #4
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
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    Can you overdose on sodium thiosulphate?

    Sounds pretty safe;
    Sodium Thiosulphate
    Sodium Thiosulphate
    Sodium thiosulfate is used to remove heavy metals from
    polluted streams. It maintains a dual role as a potent
    antioxidant and chelator of calcium and other toxic substances.

    Sodium thiosulfate is an exciting natural medical substance useful in a surprisingly broad range of clinical situations. Though normally used intravenously, orally and transdermally it can and should be used for treating tap, distilled and reverse osmosis water for water detoxification, mineralization and other extended health benefits. It is extremely inexpensive, safe to use and widely available. The EPA states, “Sodium thiosulfate has been safely used for over 100 years as a therapeutic agent; medical uses of sodium thiosulfate have been well documented since 1895.” Sodium thiosulfate is classified by the FDA as a Direct Food Substance Affirmed as Generally Recognized as Safe. [i]


    Sodium thiosulfate is a natural substance found in hot
    water springs. It is one of the secret ingredients,
    which gives these springs their healing power.

    Intravenous sodium thiosulfate is currently used as an antidote for the treatment of cyanide poisoning and prevention of toxicities of cisplatin cancer therapies. It is used as a food and medicinal preservative and topically used as an antifungal medication. The sulfur smell component of the hot mineral springs is sodium thiosulfate. Thiosulfate is unique; it reacts with free radicals (oxygen) to form a sodium sulfate compound which prevents the radicals from destroying or attacking the cells. This is perhaps why the elderly like to visit hot mineral springs.


    Sodium thiosulfate may be effective in
    reducing some chemically induced cancers.
    US EPA

    Pet shops all know and sell sodium thiosulfate as a de-chlorinator used in fish tanks to remove the chlorine (and other halogen compounds) so the toxicity of these chemicals do not kill the fish. One can buy it in 1 kilo bags from a chemical supply store. We need very little of it and it is mixed 10% sodium thiosulfate added with 90% water. It can be used in our own drinking water to rid it of cancer causing components. We need to be sure to eliminate the chlorine from the water we drink and bathe in. Chlorine in bath water is inhaled and absorbed, especially from hot water. This is important as chlorine is a deadly poison. It can produce fatigue and tiredness after the bath. Industrial chemist, J.P. Bercz, Ph.D., showed in 1992 that chlorinated water alters and destroys unsaturated essential fatty acids (EFAs), the building blocks of people's brains and central nervous systems. The compound hypochlorite, created when chlorine mixes with water, generates excess free radicals; these oxidize EFAs, turning them rancid. Both chlorine and fluoride inhibit the stomach's ability to produce HCl, and impair the ability of beneficial flora to grow in the gut.


    While taking a warm shower or lounging in a hot tub filled with chlorinated water one inhales chloroform. Even worse, warm water opens the pores, causing the skin to act like a sponge. One will absorb and inhale more chlorine in a 10-minute shower than by drinking eight glasses of the same water. A window from the shower room open to the outdoors removes chloroform from the shower room air, but to prevent absorption of chlorine through the skin, a shower-head that removes chlorine from shower water is a must. In the bath water the solution of course is sodium thiosulfate. Swimming pools, often with high chlorine concentrations are also a danger, especially for children who already have damaged or deficient sulfate pathways.[ii]


    Sodium thiosulfate (STS) is a calcium

    chelating agent with antioxidant properties.

    --Dr. Carlos E. Araya


    Figure 1. (A) Initial three-phase bone scan demonstrating soft tissue accumulation
    in thighs, distal femur, proximal tibia, and forearms. There is intense uptake in the
    myocardium and early accumulation in the lungs. (B) Three months later, the
    calcium deposition in the thighs and forearms is less significant. However,
    there still is calcification in the heart, lungs, and para-articular surfaces.

    The beneficial effects of sodium thiosulfate (STS) are thought to be due in part to its ability to enhance the solubility of calcium deposits. STS has a small molecular weight of 248 (Na2S2O3) and in patients with normal renal function has a serum half-life of 15 min. STS facilitates the mobilization of calcium from vessels affected by calcium deposits.


    Intravenous STS seems beneficial, has mild adverse
    effects, and is well tolerated in children and young adults.
    STS dosage was 25 g/1.73 m2 per dose intravenously.
    Dr. Carlos E. Araya

    Dr. Carlos E. Araya et al[iii] successfully used this relatively nontoxic substance, which been reported as adjuvant treatment of several conditions involving disorders of calcium homeostasis. Yatzidis described its benefits by decreasing the rate of new kidney stone development in 34 patients with recurrent calcium urolithiasis. Prompted by these excellent results, intravenous STS was administered after hemodialysis to three patients with ESRD and tumoral calcinosis for a period of 6 to 12 mo. Two of the patients had regression of the calcified mass as well as improved motility of the affected joints. STS was given for a period of 9 yr to a patient with nephrocalcinosis as a result of renal tubular acidosis type 1. There was no further deterioration of his condition, and the discontinuation of the medication was accompanied by recurrence of renal colic.


    Sodium thiosulfate may be tried to treat arsenic poisoning.
    When used in combination with sodium molybdate sodium
    thiosulfate may be useful for the treatment of copper poisoning.[iv]
    Presumably the sulfate moiety may react with and chelate this
    and other heavy metals, allowing their removal.
    It is also used to clean up environmental mercury spills.[v]

    Sodium thiosulfate is not only non toxic it is life giving. Just add a couple of drops of sodium thiosulfate and fulvic to plants and they will grow and bloom quickly and beautifully though one will observe that fulvic acid alone doesn't work well without the presence of sodium thiosulfate.[vi] Interestingly this material from hot spring waters acts like sea water in that both can have dramatic life giving effects. Traditional scientific thinking would have us believe that after the tsunami-affected land in Indonesia's Aceh province was flooded crops grown from the land would be devastated by the salt water. But many farmers shook off the shock of the catastrophe and planted seeds and grew new crops. What farmers found out was that the soil grew crops stronger and heavier than anyone had seen in half a century of farming there. One positive from the disaster was the discovery that sea water holds the secret to soil fertility. What we need to understand is that it is the minerals in the ocean that are the ultimate seasoning for soil, for plants, animals and humans alike.[vii] (Magnesium Oil thus is a great fertilizer for it is condensed sea water with almost all the salt removed.)


    The sea water turned out to be a great fertilizer.
    We are looking at yields twice as high as last year.
    --Muhammad Yacob

    Sodium thiosulfate (SOE-dee-um thye-oh-SUL-fate) may be used to lessen some of the side effects of cisplatin (a cancer medicine). Reporting in the July issue of the Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, researchers with the Portland U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center and Oregon Health Sciences University have found that they can prevent or sharply reduce hearing loss with sodium thiosulfate. Dr. Ed Neuwelt reported, "When we used the drugs such as sodium thiosulfate, it binds the platinum and prevents the platinum from injuring the outer hair cells." Sodium thiosulfate is the first medicinal substance shown to prevent chemotherapy-induced hearing loss. This is important for approximately a third to one-half of cancer patients treated with the platinum-based chemotherapy agent cisplatin develop some degree of communication difficulty due to hearing loss.


    Sodium thiosulfate does not affect the endocrine system, except as a
    detoxifying agent of compounds that have been shown to adversely

    affect the endocrine system (i.e. chlorine and other reactant species).
    --US EPA

    It is also used with another medicine in the emergency treatment of cyanide poisoning.[viii] Sodium thiosulfate is a water soluble salt and reducing agent that reacts with oxidizing agents. Although its exact mechanism of action is unknown, thiosulfate likely provides an exogenous source of sulfur, thereby hastening the detoxification of cyanide through the enzyme rhodanese (thiosulfate cyanide sulfurtransferase) which converts cyanide to the relatively nontoxic, excretable thiocyanate ion. In addition, this agent neutralizes the reactive alkylating species of nitrogen mustard, thereby decreasing skin toxicity related to nitrogen mustard extravasation.


    Though it is not recognized in research sodium thiosulfate may also be helpful with our joints and rheumatism which also come under free radical attack. This is not imagination since people with arthritis and rheumatism do go for treatment in many high sulfur (rich in sodium thiosulfate) springs for their cure. This is why MSM is also effective against arthritis as well, due to the sulfur content.


    92% of autistic children seem to be wasting sulfate in the
    urine; for blood plasma levels are typically low and urinary
    levels are high. There is also an abnormal cysteine to sulfate ratio.[ix]
    --Dr. Rosemary Waring

    Sulfate is the most oxidized form of sulfur. It doesn't need to be oxidized any more, so supplementing or bathing in sulfate supplies what is lacking because of the body's inability to oxidize the sulfur in foods. This is especially important for autistic children.[x] Most children on the autism spectrum are very low in sulfate and may be as low as 15 percent of the amount in neurologically typical people. People with low or no ability to convert compounds to sulfate have problems handling environmental chemicals, some medications, and even some chemicals produced within the body. They include people with other conditions such as Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, rheumatoid arthritis, and chemical sensitivities.[xi]

  5. #5
    Jumbo Tosai_Sunny's Avatar
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    Mar 2004
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    Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzyfish View Post
    Sounds pretty safe;
    Sodium Thiosulphate

    Sodium Thiosulphate
    Sodium thiosulfate is used to remove heavy metals from

    polluted streams. It maintains a dual role as a potent
    antioxidant and chelator of calcium and other toxic substances.


    Sodium thiosulfate is an exciting natural medical substance useful in a surprisingly broad range of clinical situations. Though normally used intravenously, orally and transdermally it can and should be used for treating tap, distilled and reverse osmosis water for water detoxification, mineralization and other extended health benefits. It is extremely inexpensive, safe to use and widely available. The EPA states, “Sodium thiosulfate has been safely used for over 100 years as a therapeutic agent; medical uses of sodium thiosulfate have been well documented since 1895.” Sodium thiosulfate is classified by the FDA as a Direct Food Substance Affirmed as Generally Recognized as Safe.



    Sodium thiosulfate is a natural substance found in hot

    water springs. It is one of the secret ingredients,
    which gives these springs their healing power.


    Intravenous sodium thiosulfate is currently used as an antidote for the treatment of cyanide poisoning and prevention of toxicities of cisplatin cancer therapies. It is used as a food and medicinal preservative and topically used as an antifungal medication. The sulfur smell component of the hot mineral springs is sodium thiosulfate. Thiosulfate is unique; it reacts with free radicals (oxygen) to form a sodium sulfate compound which prevents the radicals from destroying or attacking the cells. This is perhaps why the elderly like to visit hot mineral springs.



    Sodium thiosulfate may be effective in

    reducing some chemically induced cancers.
    US EPA


    Pet shops all know and sell sodium thiosulfate as a de-chlorinator used in fish tanks to remove the chlorine (and other halogen compounds) so the toxicity of these chemicals do not kill the fish. One can buy it in 1 kilo bags from a chemical supply store. We need very little of it and it is mixed 10% sodium thiosulfate added with 90% water. It can be used in our own drinking water to rid it of cancer causing components. We need to be sure to eliminate the chlorine from the water we drink and bathe in. Chlorine in bath water is inhaled and absorbed, especially from hot water. This is important as chlorine is a deadly poison. It can produce fatigue and tiredness after the bath. Industrial chemist, J.P. Bercz, Ph.D., showed in 1992 that chlorinated water alters and destroys unsaturated essential fatty acids (EFAs), the building blocks of people's brains and central nervous systems. The compound hypochlorite, created when chlorine mixes with water, generates excess free radicals; these oxidize EFAs, turning them rancid. Both chlorine and fluoride inhibit the stomach's ability to produce HCl, and impair the ability of beneficial flora to grow in the gut.


    While taking a warm shower or lounging in a hot tub filled with chlorinated water one inhales chloroform. Even worse, warm water opens the pores, causing the skin to act like a sponge. One will absorb and inhale more chlorine in a 10-minute shower than by drinking eight glasses of the same water. A window from the shower room open to the outdoors removes chloroform from the shower room air, but to prevent absorption of chlorine through the skin, a shower-head that removes chlorine from shower water is a must. In the bath water the solution of course is sodium thiosulfate. Swimming pools, often with high chlorine concentrations are also a danger, especially for children who already have damaged or deficient sulfate pathways.[ii]



    Sodium thiosulfate (STS) is a calcium


    chelating agent with antioxidant properties.

    --Dr. Carlos E. Araya




    Figure 1. (A) Initial three-phase bone scan demonstrating soft tissue accumulation
    in thighs, distal femur, proximal tibia, and forearms. There is intense uptake in the
    myocardium and early accumulation in the lungs. (B) Three months later, the
    calcium deposition in the thighs and forearms is less significant. However,
    there still is calcification in the heart, lungs, and para-articular surfaces.


    The beneficial effects of sodium thiosulfate (STS) are thought to be due in part to its ability to enhance the solubility of calcium deposits. STS has a small molecular weight of 248 (Na2S2O3) and in patients with normal renal function has a serum half-life of 15 min. STS facilitates the mobilization of calcium from vessels affected by calcium deposits.



    Intravenous STS seems beneficial, has mild adverse

    effects, and is well tolerated in children and young adults.
    STS dosage was 25 g/1.73 m2 per dose intravenously.
    Dr. Carlos E. Araya


    Dr. Carlos E. Araya et al[iii] successfully used this relatively nontoxic substance, which been reported as adjuvant treatment of several conditions involving disorders of calcium homeostasis. Yatzidis described its benefits by decreasing the rate of new kidney stone development in 34 patients with recurrent calcium urolithiasis. Prompted by these excellent results, intravenous STS was administered after hemodialysis to three patients with ESRD and tumoral calcinosis for a period of 6 to 12 mo. Two of the patients had regression of the calcified mass as well as improved motility of the affected joints. STS was given for a period of 9 yr to a patient with nephrocalcinosis as a result of renal tubular acidosis type 1. There was no further deterioration of his condition, and the discontinuation of the medication was accompanied by recurrence of renal colic.



    Sodium thiosulfate may be tried to treat arsenic poisoning.

    When used in combination with sodium molybdate sodium
    thiosulfate may be useful for the treatment of copper poisoning.[iv]
    Presumably the sulfate moiety may react with and chelate this
    and other heavy metals, allowing their removal.
    It is also used to clean up environmental mercury spills.[v]


    Sodium thiosulfate is not only non toxic it is life giving. Just add a couple of drops of sodium thiosulfate and fulvic to plants and they will grow and bloom quickly and beautifully though one will observe that fulvic acid alone doesn't work well without the presence of sodium thiosulfate.[vi] Interestingly this material from hot spring waters acts like sea water in that both can have dramatic life giving effects. Traditional scientific thinking would have us believe that after the tsunami-affected land in Indonesia's Aceh province was flooded crops grown from the land would be devastated by the salt water. But many farmers shook off the shock of the catastrophe and planted seeds and grew new crops. What farmers found out was that the soil grew crops stronger and heavier than anyone had seen in half a century of farming there. One positive from the disaster was the discovery that sea water holds the secret to soil fertility. What we need to understand is that it is the minerals in the ocean that are the ultimate seasoning for soil, for plants, animals and humans alike.[vii] (Magnesium Oil thus is a great fertilizer for it is condensed sea water with almost all the salt removed.)



    The sea water turned out to be a great fertilizer.

    We are looking at yields twice as high as last year.
    --Muhammad Yacob


    Sodium thiosulfate (SOE-dee-um thye-oh-SUL-fate) may be used to lessen some of the side effects of cisplatin (a cancer medicine). Reporting in the July issue of the Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, researchers with the Portland U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center and Oregon Health Sciences University have found that they can prevent or sharply reduce hearing loss with sodium thiosulfate. Dr. Ed Neuwelt reported, "When we used the drugs such as sodium thiosulfate, it binds the platinum and prevents the platinum from injuring the outer hair cells." Sodium thiosulfate is the first medicinal substance shown to prevent chemotherapy-induced hearing loss. This is important for approximately a third to one-half of cancer patients treated with the platinum-based chemotherapy agent cisplatin develop some degree of communication difficulty due to hearing loss.



    Sodium thiosulfate does not affect the endocrine system, except as a

    detoxifying agent of compounds that have been shown to adversely

    affect the endocrine system (i.e. chlorine and other reactant species).
    --US EPA


    It is also used with another medicine in the emergency treatment of cyanide poisoning.[viii] Sodium thiosulfate is a water soluble salt and reducing agent that reacts with oxidizing agents. Although its exact mechanism of action is unknown, thiosulfate likely provides an exogenous source of sulfur, thereby hastening the detoxification of cyanide through the enzyme rhodanese (thiosulfate cyanide sulfurtransferase) which converts cyanide to the relatively nontoxic, excretable thiocyanate ion. In addition, this agent neutralizes the reactive alkylating species of nitrogen mustard, thereby decreasing skin toxicity related to nitrogen mustard extravasation.


    Though it is not recognized in research sodium thiosulfate may also be helpful with our joints and rheumatism which also come under free radical attack. This is not imagination since people with arthritis and rheumatism do go for treatment in many high sulfur (rich in sodium thiosulfate) springs for their cure. This is why MSM is also effective against arthritis as well, due to the sulfur content.



    92% of autistic children seem to be wasting sulfate in the

    urine; for blood plasma levels are typically low and urinary
    levels are high. There is also an abnormal cysteine to sulfate ratio.[ix]
    [i] --Dr. Rosemary Waring


    Sulfate is the most oxidized form of sulfur. It doesn't need to be oxidized any more, so supplementing or bathing in sulfate supplies what is lacking because of the body's inability to oxidize the sulfur in foods. This is especially important for autistic children.[x] Most children on the autism spectrum are very low in sulfate and may be as low as 15 percent of the amount in neurologically typical people. People with low or no ability to convert compounds to sulfate have problems handling environmental chemicals, some medications, and even some chemicals produced within the body. They include people with other conditions such as Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, rheumatoid arthritis, and chemical sensitivities.[xi]
    I did not know that ST is like a miracle drug that can cure all. I have always afraid of inhaling ST when mixing it for my water change. Now, I am going to do more water changes just to inhale more of it for my health. Also, no more hot shower for me.

    Kind Regards,
    Sunny

  6. #6
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
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    Kentucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tosai_Sunny View Post
    I did not know that ST is like a miracle drug that can cure all. I have always afraid of inhaling ST when mixing it for my water change. Now, I am going to do more water changes just to inhale more of it for my health. Also, no more hot shower for me.

    Kind Regards,
    Sunny
    Very funny stuff. Between ST and bentonite clay.......... all health problems are gone.

    Bentonite Clay Detox | eHow.com

  7. #7
    Tategoi bobbysuzanna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Charlotte NC
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    If it sounds to good to be true.....

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