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Thread: Meeting to discuss club options to recent AKCA board actions

  1. #21
    Tosai
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    JR, I think you are missing the point. What the new(if there are any new board members-there would still have to be an election) candidates plan or stand for is a matter for the elections. The point here is that there is NO election. All that is asked for is the chance for a real election, not some farce of an election. If that is "hostile" then I reckon I am hostile....

  2. #22
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by gelmore54 View Post
    JR, I think you are missing the point. What the new(if there are any new board members-there would still have to be an election) candidates plan or stand for is a matter for the elections. The point here is that there is NO election. All that is asked for is the chance for a real election, not some farce of an election. If that is "hostile" then I reckon I am hostile....
    Hi, yes your point is taken. And that will play out as it should. I was just wondering tho-- ( always a dangerous thing! LOLs). the bad form of the old guard aside, what is actually being voted ON? ( the republicans are having a nomination right now and their plan for the country are part of that process)
    Usually Candidates tell us before we vote, what they are running for. What it is they are going to do. I realized I don't have a clue what a new management has in mind once they do get elected. I know that one of the goals was to rearrange the political process so that there are regions of the country and not just one central system. I have questions about that as this was proposed within ZNA ten years ago by Grant Fugita when he was considering a run for District Chairman. His idea was,as he discussed it with me, to have four regions in America, and each with its own district chairman, its own regional show and its own regional officers and then the chapters or clubs below that politics. I reminded him that we had seven chapters at the time ( with 210 total members) and that it was WAY too much politics for such a small organization.But that is another conversation for another venue. I calculated that we would have 5 directors, 35 regional politicos and 28 chapter officers-- a total of 68 politicians!! Lots of chiefs and few indians! And I pointed out, knowing koi politicans, who would clean all that blood off the walls! LOLs I then suggested that politics was not for him and he agreed. we had a good laugh. As far as 'representation' goes, I suggest people just pick up a phone?!

    Besides the rearranging of the political reporting system, is there something else the new slate of officers is proposing? New website? New approach to seminars? Just wondering so I can see whats' at stake besides the old guard being driven out. That's all. JR

  3. #23
    Jumbo jnorth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Just wondering so I can see whats' at stake besides the old guard being driven out. That's all. JR
    Which "old guard" is being driven out and by whom? Seems to me thats its "new guard" vs "new guard" with some "old guard" thrown in on both sides for good measure.
    Koi-Unit
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  4. #24
    Nisai
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    Jim, I believe you have missed the point of this discussion. There is no new slate. The Board of Directors for AKCA voted to eliminate any and all competition for officers by only allowing one name per office on the ballot and eliminating write-in candidates. Both of these actions are not permitted by Robert's Rules of Order. That is the issue. There is no election, just a vote of confidence for the slate proposed and forwarded to the clubs.

    Now to debate the stance of some of the individuals who were rightfully nominated for the offices is moot at this point, because they are not on the ballot and therefore cannot become officers on the AKCA BoD.

    So, we would all be better served to discuss the validity of the current election process and save the philosophical discussions until they are relevent. This is not about individuals it is about the actions of a group who are attempting to take away the rights of the clubs to elect leaders of their choice, right or wrong.

    So if you like we can debate Robert's Rules of Order, the AKCA Bylaws, or even ethics. But let us dispense from history lessons and crystal balling.

    MIKE

  5. #25
    Daihonmei
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    hi Jim, when I say old guard I really do mean the system of AKCA ( mostly the orginal core of which Bob and joan Finnegan are its heart and soul)
    I'm telling you something that you may or may not know--- It is this old guard system that discovers talent and hones it and brings it along, that is what AKCA really is and WHY it has been so successful and enduring over the past 34 years.

    Just like in your chapter/club, it was the Poppe's that founded, and brought along people to run Potomac ZNA and created a sense of culture- the ZNA culture.

    But at the national level there are others/many involved - yet they all understand the culture even if they don't see the tradition or long term direction of things. Loyality to amongst the true old guard is strong and that is what appears to be a closed club. But I can tell you that I'm from New jersey- born and raised and I was part of the AKCA for a long time as much as any californian. I never had ambition to be on the board proper but didn't see it as impossible. And since I rewrote the bylaws I find it funny that people suggest that no one is well represented!

    Years ago a fella by the name of Jim Brunk appeared on the scene. He was a nice guy, had a beautiful pond and was retired so he had time to dedicate to AKCA. he was promoted by the east coast clubs that were at a kinda war with AKCA ( they called them the 'west coast mafia') and Brunk felt their pain and wanted to represent the other clubs outside of California. he was a well off guy and had time so he began to fly out to meetings every month to add his ideas and vision for a new and better AKCA. You can imagine how this was received by the board! It was threatening! yet, even as much as I was sympathetic with Jim and his energy, I saw that he was not very respectful of all that had come before him. In fact Jim didn't really see much of anything of the culture of the organization. He was just sure he had a better AKCA in mind. And he had the momentum for a very power set of koi clubs mostly out east.
    I think the disturbing thing for the board of that day was this person who was being considered for more and more involvement was not interested in their opinions as much as he was in the idea of replacing the old organization with a new one- born from his ideas of what a national koi association should be and look like. In short, it was a hostile take over and the old guard sensed it.

    I'm not saying we are seeing the exact same thing now. But I'm sure the Brunk and eastern club charge have an effect of sensitivity. And I'm not saying change is not good-- it is. But I am saying that a new culture will be established if the 'farm team' recruitment system is dumped in favor of ' a thinking outside the box' group comes into full power. I called that slate of candidiates the 'new guard' as they are not of the same cultural mind set as the old guard.
    I know when I post things that 99% of the folks reading my words are trying to figure out WHO'S SIDE is JR on?? I'm on no one's side. Indeed I have friends on both sides! And I have duties elsewhere to see to. In ZNA we don't have these issues as we only have an advisory board and no such politics.

    But I know some things. And I have some perspective. I care about the future of AKCA. And I see the danger of this particular election, no matter who wins. JR

  6. #26
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
    Is the ZNA here in north america associated with the AKCA. Reason I ask is, is the ZNA an alternative for clubs or an addition to the AKCA? I'm ignorant as to the structure as I'm sure many are as well. Perhaps someone like JR could explain I'm not saying everyone should turn their back on the AKCA as I have no experience with either, just wondering.
    Mike, Both the ZNA AND AKCA are "an alternative for Koi clubs" in North America.

    I do not know anything about the AKCA bylaws, but some not for profit organizations have "boards" that ARE NOT elected by the membership

    "A board-only organization typically has a self-selected board, and a membership whose powers are limited to those delegated to it by the board."

  7. #27
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by fr8e View Post
    Jim, I believe you have missed the point of this discussion. There is no new slate. The Board of Directors for AKCA voted to eliminate any and all competition for officers by only allowing one name per office on the ballot and eliminating write-in candidates. Both of these actions are not permitted by Robert's Rules of Order. That is the issue. There is no election, just a vote of confidence for the slate proposed and forwarded to the clubs.

    Now to debate the stance of some of the individuals who were rightfully nominated for the offices is moot at this point, because they are not on the ballot and therefore cannot become officers on the AKCA BoD.

    So, we would all be better served to discuss the validity of the current election process and save the philosophical discussions until they are relevent. This is not about individuals it is about the actions of a group who are attempting to take away the rights of the clubs to elect leaders of their choice, right or wrong.

    So if you like we can debate Robert's Rules of Order, the AKCA Bylaws, or even ethics. But let us dispense from history lessons and crystal balling.

    MIKE
    Yep. the surface conversion is a no brainer, the old guard messed up with a response to a threat that may ultimately be considered poor form by both fair minded membership and by Robert of Roberts rules! Still the underlying text exists-- That is really the issue. Honestly I think it a brilliant thing that the topic of conversation is the heavy handed reaction and not the reason/cause for the reaction. Good political chess actually.
    I'll repeat my first caution, however, be careful what you wish for it may come true. And pray that the Finnegans do not take their well wore bat and ball and go home. I can't imagine that of course but time is a wearing thing. I have a soft spot for the man, so forgive me.

    Best of luck to you Mike. And may the best candidates win, who ever they are. Long live the democratic process and long live AKCA! JR

  8. #28
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    Mike, Both the ZNA AND AKCA are "an alternative for Koi clubs" in North America.

    I do not know anything about the AKCA bylaws, but some not for profit organizations have "boards" that ARE NOT elected by the membership

    "A board-only organization typically has a self-selected board, and a membership whose powers are limited to those delegated to it by the board."
    Thanks Ricshaw, that is correct. For instance, we have an advisory board in ZNA , they are the chapter presidents. And they vote for the head of the board every two years. And that elected individual must then be approved by the board in Japan as the recognized district chairman.
    The membership does not directly vote for anyone beyond their chapter president. JR

  9. #29
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Thanks Ricshaw, that is correct. For instance, we have an advisory board in ZNA , they are the chapter presidents. And they vote for the head of the board every two years. And that elected individual must then be approved by the board in Japan as the recognized district chairman.
    The membership does not directly vote for anyone beyond their chapter president. JR
    In the U.S.A. many people (myself included), because of what we are taught about our democratic form of government, have a problem when first exposed to "boards" where the board members are not selected by the membership.

  10. #30
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    In the U.S.A. many people (myself included), because of what we are taught about our democratic form of government, have a problem when first exposed to "boards" where the board members are not selected by the membership.
    wow, that is SO very true. It is easy for us all to get confused in the structure of different management mechanisms. They each have their cultural origins, rules and styles for getting things done.

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