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Thread: DOC a bad sign?

  1. #21
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    So if you want to clean up the water in the mean time, just put some activated carbon on the system or some chemi pure or polyfilter-- all will take the stain out of the water. JR
    The foul looking water isn't what I'm concerned about, I would rather find the correct feed/food ratio for the stocking I have now, it will only get worse as they grow so I need to change something, I will start with smaller water changes more often and keep searching for a low protein food
    Ben

  2. #22
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben5020 View Post
    The foul looking water isn't what I'm concerned about, I would rather find the correct feed/food ratio for the stocking I have now, it will only get worse as they grow so I need to change something, I will start with smaller water changes more often and keep searching for a low protein food
    Ben
    well water changes are good and small ones best. But when it comes to dyes they are stubborn in that they will be diluted but still remain- just paler. the carbin will make the water white clear but it will also become exhausted quickly. If you can your hads on a large ehiem or a small canaster filter you can fill it with activated carbion And some water treatment companies can get you a 'whole house carbon filter' .
    I'd ask mcCann about the food for fry.

  3. #23
    MCA
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    If a biofilter is 'over active' it means that the fish have outgrown the system or that the feeding is out of hand. The solution to an over active filter is to reduce load and increase water changes.
    Fully agreed. The koi keeper has let the load (nitrate production) overtake the amount of water being swapped. Again the problem is not the filter...it is a dump device. The problem is with the koi keeper not proactively managing the system. We can't blame the koi for eating available food or the bacteria for doing likewise.

  4. #24
    Sansai WayneB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    The problem is with the koi keeper not proactively managing the system. We can't blame the koi for eating available food or the bacteria for doing likewise.
    Thanks MCA, i fully agree here.

  5. #25
    Nisai cookcpu's Avatar
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    Very interesting thought on over active filter.

    I guess my filter is in this category. I have a 25 tons pond with a 8 ton filter. Nitrate have been hovering around 50 ppm to 100ppm.

    I have to drain and wash the whole filter chamber to keep the nitrate level at 50 ppm. If I didn't do that in two weeks it will hit 100ppm.

    I feed around 3kg of high protein food per week. (Which is under fed from what I gather in my area). I change about 1 to 2 tons of water per day. I have a clarity tower to reduce the DOC. So far, there is hardly any foam coming out of this unit.

    I have around 21 koi, about 3 koi are greater than 70cm and the rest is around 50 cm.

    I am still trying to keep the nitrate level below 25ppm but fail.

    Every one or two month, my pond water will give off foul smell due to koi spawning activity.

  6. #26
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    Fully agreed. The koi keeper has let the load (nitrate production) overtake the amount of water being swapped. Again the problem is not the filter...it is a dump device. The problem is with the koi keeper not proactively managing the system. We can't blame the koi for eating available food or the bacteria for doing likewise.

    well I don't think is about blame! I think it is more about 'symptoms' and 'limitations'.
    try this--- if you stop feeding your fish in high season ( June-July-august) for say a week, and then test your water you will see a massive drop in your ambient NitrAte. The biofilter will fall bact in proportion to the limits of your closed system. You fish will look better, your water will look better and the fish will be very active. This is a vivid illustration of just how limiting a closed body of water is.

    Every pond should have a recorded set of base parameters that you keep an eye on. from this you should KNOW what it takes to pull and push these parameters far out of that base line reading. Pushing an established biolfilter into overdrive or overactivity is just one sign ( high NitrAte). A drop in ORP would be another and lower pH and lower saturated oxygen levels yet another. Bacteria count would also be yet another.
    JR

  7. #27
    MCA
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    JR,

    I am lost at you wanting to pick a device (filter and its bacteria) that exists is a series of processes and saying it is overdoing its work. It is just responding to stimulus. The key is the decisions of the koi keeper in terms of stocking levels, feeding levels (volume of food and whats in the food)...these create the load to which the filter responds......and filter maintenance (dumping organics) and water changes that will help keep the filtration by products (like nitrate) low.

    The koi keeper is in control....not the filter. I have yet to see a filter with a turbo button. Maybe that is the next EA invention.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  8. #28
    Oyagoi kingkong's Avatar
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    The phrase 'overactive' bio means nothing and trying to explain it's reasoning is a pointless exercise in futility.

  9. #29
    Sansai
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    I can understand what you're saying Jaspr and in many ways none of us disagree, it's just that term "over" active. I tend to think of myfilter as having a physical size and so many kilos of media. Your point about the actual biomass of the filter expanding and contracting according to how much work it is doing is very sensible.

    I can also see how a filter can be "under" active, if my fish are being left to bathe in ammonia or nitrite.

    It's just that overactive that doesn't work for me or some others. If it is converting all of the ammonia to nitrate then it is being just active enough.
    I can't change my filter biomass but I can increase my water changes, reduce my feeding or get rid of some of my fish. Those are my only options available when managing my pond to reduce the build up of that end point of it all - nitrate.
    As I said, not sure we're really disagreeing and it's good to see you reminding people that the problems aren't all over once the nitrification process is finished.

  10. #30
    MCA
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    Kind of like an gasoline engine that is running too rich. You end up with fouling and maybe a misfire. You have to "lean it out". The same applies to the koi pond. If you are running the pond system too rich (too much food and too many koi)...and ending up with high nitrates. So you have to lean it out.

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