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Thread: salt

  1. #11
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300wby View Post
    I never used salt in my koi ponds, yesterday i was told that i should always have a .1 salt content in my koi ponds is this true? i looked on line some say its good some say its not, but i know someone on here will have the answer. I bought the salt today but still not sure if i should ad it or not. Thanks
    That is what some people did back in the 1970s... but not now.

  2. #12
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Eugene, and I think I know where that information came from!
    Salt does not reduce stress directly ( my apologizes to Eugene but I wanted to be more specific) . It can help with metabolic function/osmosis fluid balance (koi are constantly passing water) however, which will in turn reduce that effort and avoid additional stress. This is because it will make it easier for the koi’s' organs and body to be in equilibrium with its surrounding.
    Salt is an irritant to koi and they will respond by secreting mucous. But the global cells will quickly become exhausted and then salt has an opportunity to act as an astringent! Drying out mucous and reducing it! So short term effect good, long term effect bad.
    And finally, costia LOVES the gills. It will borrow in like a tick on a dog and no amount of mucous will protect a fish's gills from costia in the epizootic phase. What will stop them is good water and strong koi. Remember, costia injects a toxin in the gill cells and kills them, so there is no mucous being produced in the area of invasion. This is why costia is so deadly. It can stop a gill from operating and ironically if their gills are mucous coated/irritated, that is an area of gill that is not free for gas exchange and metabolic active transport. Something to consider.
    Salt is best held back until needed and probably has a very limited place in an established main pond. As Eugene says, it is best used when importing and acclimating new koi in quarantine.
    If not used often it is a good chemotherapy for certain parasites like ich, especially in a ‘one two punch’ combination where you can use a lighter dose of a more toxic chemical with salt. This is on a case by case basis however so make sure you know about potential negative effects of using salt with certain compounds like a full charge of Formalin. As a general rule if the parasite has gotten to the gills, only very low dose salt should be considered.
    I think it would be a very good idea if , under controlled conditions, a group of koi health students would give a salt dip to a koi to show beginners just how powerful salt can be. It is no harmless. In the full traditional salt dip, koi roll over with a complete lose of osmotic function, they roll over and all the slime coat sloughs off into the water! It is quite shocking when you see it for the first time. I’ve seen koi die from such dips. Total osmotic shock.

    Word to the wise . JR
    I did look up what DR Johnson had to say and it is not much diffrent from 20 years ago;
    People still use salt?
    Oh, woops watergarden type person speaking here (don't want to kill the plants - land or water), I usually try to use a treatment that better targets the issue, but i guess salt is cheap.

    The below text is quoted from Koi health & Didease by Erik L. Johnson, D.V.M., pages 128,129 and 130.
    Salt has so many benefits over other Medicants. Namely;
    1) It does not harm the majority of fish species. (unlike Form Formalin)
    2) It does not push sick fish 'over the edge." (unlike Formalin or Potassium permanganate)
    3) It eliminates, QUICKLY, 7 of 9 parasites I can easily recall.
    4) It does not get bound out of the system by organics or sunlight. (unlike Nitrofurazone, chlormine, Potassium permanganate, and Formalin)
    5) It does not pose a health risk to humans contacting it. (unlike Cholamphenicol, Formalin and Nitrofurazone which are all carcinoens)
    6) It is Cheap.
    7) It WON'T harm your filter! (Unlike Malachite Green, Methylene Blue, Copper, Formalin, Chloramphenicol, other antibiotics, Acriflavine and PP)

    Salt at 0.3% performs wonderfully in the stimulation of the mucus producing "goblet-cells" in the fish epidermis. Fish under attack by parasites, especially ciliates, do much better with a heavier slime coat produced by the application of salt to the systems. Fish with ulcers also benefit by the goblet-cell stimulation because the additional slime helps cover the wounds, if minor.

    Salt at 0.3% also reduces the massive influx of water into the fish, especially when under stress. Because the blood and tissues of a fish are more concentrated than the water around them (0.9% is isotonic), it is a law of nature that water will try to move into the fish to try to equalize the concentrations of water inside and outside the fish. The fish normally excretes alot of the water taken in through the gills via the kidney. Under stress, and in situations where the integument or skin is damaged, water influx is greater, and bacteria or sheer stress may impair the kidney function. When water salinity is raised to 0.3%, it is much closer to the osmolality of the fish (0.9%) and so less water is pushing into the fish's wounds, gills, skin, etc.

    Saltr also presents a flaw when plants take precedence over fish in a system. The vast majority of aquatic plants will survive salting, particularly if the dosing is done gradually over 48-72 hours.

    Although for treatment I use mainly Potassium Permanganate I would never recomend it to a beginnner.
    Regards
    Eugene

  3. #13
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    You may have an audience for the salt story on a ponder or water garden BBS....but this will be a tough crowd for that song and dance.

  4. #14
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugeneg View Post
    I did look up what DR Johnson had to say and it is not much diffrent from 20 years ago;
    People still use salt?
    Oh, woops watergarden type person speaking here (don't want to kill the plants - land or water), I usually try to use a treatment that better targets the issue, but i guess salt is cheap.
    The below text is quoted from Koi health & Didease by Erik L. Johnson, D.V.M., pages 128,129 and 130.
    Salt has so many benefits over other Medicants. Namely;
    1) It does not harm the majority of fish species. (unlike Form Formalin)
    2) It does not push sick fish 'over the edge." (unlike Formalin or Potassium permanganate)
    3) It eliminates, QUICKLY, 7 of 9 parasites I can easily recall.
    4) It does not get bound out of the system by organics or sunlight. (unlike Nitrofurazone, chlormine, Potassium permanganate, and Formalin)
    5) It does not pose a health risk to humans contacting it. (unlike Cholamphenicol, Formalin and Nitrofurazone which are all carcinoens)
    6) It is Cheap.
    7) It WON'T harm your filter! (Unlike Malachite Green, Methylene Blue, Copper, Formalin, Chloramphenicol, other antibiotics, Acriflavine and PP)
    Salt at 0.3% performs wonderfully in the stimulation of the mucus producing "goblet-cells" in the fish epidermis. Fish under attack by parasites, especially ciliates, do much better with a heavier slime coat produced by the application of salt to the systems. Fish with ulcers also benefit by the goblet-cell stimulation because the additional slime helps cover the wounds, if minor.
    Salt at 0.3% also reduces the massive influx of water into the fish, especially when under stress. Because the blood and tissues of a fish are more concentrated than the water around them (0.9% is isotonic), it is a law of nature that water will try to move into the fish to try to equalize the concentrations of water inside and outside the fish. The fish normally excretes alot of the water taken in through the gills via the kidney. Under stress, and in situations where the integument or skin is damaged, water influx is greater, and bacteria or sheer stress may impair the kidney function. When water salinity is raised to 0.3%, it is much closer to the osmolality of the fish (0.9%) and so less water is pushing into the fish's wounds, gills, skin, etc.
    Saltr also presents a flaw when plants take precedence over fish in a system. The vast majority of aquatic plants will survive salting, particularly if the dosing is done gradually over 48-72 hours.
    Although for treatment I use mainly Potassium Permanganate I would never recomend it to a beginnner.
    Regards
    Eugene
    The way it was explained to me (about 25 years ago) at a ZNA club meeting was if you want to use salt at 0.3% as a medication; it will have more of an effect if your pond has 0% salt than if you maintain 0.1% salt.

    The speaker, Chris Bushman, did an excellent job explaining how salt works and after that meeting I never salted my pond again as a maintenance practice.

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