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Thread: Tancho

  1. #21
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    Below is why I asked about which Tancho variety. As a show class it includes many varieties. Indeed if you are refering to a single variety as Tancho, that implioes a Tancho Kohaku.



    Tancho

    In Kohaku, Sanke and Showa breeding, many koi turn out to have only a single red spot which is on the head. We call these koi Tancho, Tancho Sanke and Tancho Showa respectively and they are shown in Tancho class. The Tancho spot must be between the eyes and preferable perfectly round. It must not go back onto the shoulder of the koi or down to the nose of the koi. Red may not appear anywhere else on the koi to be shown in Tancho class. A sumi pattern may cross the Tancho mark on a Tancho Showa. No other variety with a spot on the head may be shown in Tancho class. This includes Goshiki with red spot on the head, Bekko with black spot on the head and Ogon with orange spot on the head to name a few.

    KOI CLASSIFICATION & JUDGING CRITERIA
    By Douglas Dahl
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  2. #22
    Daihonmei
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    I'd say that might be the difference between the AKCA standard and the ZNA standards. The ZNA being around longer and a bit more complicated.

    In ZNA all gosanke tancho and in some regional ZNA shows, all tancho of all varieties compete against one another ( as a promotion of variety more than linkage in that case).
    It is the student of nishikigoi however that can look at tancho as kohaku and one of the four types, and as an obvious member of the gosanke clan in general. The tancho that is black or white/silver is really a different genetics and a different animal.
    In AKCA we have based many standards on ZNA standards as a jump off point. From there, it becomes more of a American view as we go along. That modifies/simplifies the rules and the details of a standard as the American eyes sees it. In the US we are pretty literal in that a Tancho must/ or should be round and specifially located on the fish. Additionally the fish should be white ( hard white) and no other red can appear in the koi. Pretty straight forward and appealing to the American idea of what a simple white fish with a red spot should be.
    The interesting thing about these two diversions in the standards- when a tancho is exceptional in its adhereing to the criteria of both our national and international judging standards, it is picked 100% of the time by 100% of the judges! JR

  3. #23
    Tosai
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    Great information JR... Cheers, and I had to read it over and over again for 3x at least to try to comprehend it .

    PS: If a koi had a injury in the fin, just a minor injury, will the fin heal to the perfect original shape, or will it have a permanent minor defect?

  4. #24
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_iwanto View Post
    Great information JR... Cheers, and I had to read it over and over again for 3x at least to try to comprehend it .

    PS: If a koi had a injury in the fin, just a minor injury, will the fin heal to the perfect original shape, or will it have a permanent minor defect?

    No problem , I crammed a lot of thoughts into that one post. Like anything in koi culture and understanding, each layer of understanding is built on another. So if layers are missing, it is hard to get ones head around deeper layers.
    The secret to koi appreciation is to accept the simple examples and words of early ZNA and breeders. Or, in deeper understanding, to dive into the subject armed with perspective. I hope to give us all that perspective.
    The perspective comes from understanding what koi are, and the physiology and genetics of each variety.

    * So all koi are either black or white based. And that creates a basic understanding of the shiroji. Tancho is a shiroji based fish.

    *And that all koi come in one of four patterns-solid, dorsal, wrapped or lateral. And a tancho is dorsal orientated in its pattern type.

    *And all koi are produced in grades. Tancho high grade koi have translucent skin and a large, strong body. This skin allows for deep layers of color. In the head, the potential is reduced but still there.

    *And all high class gosanke, and I will include tancho for this conversation as it has all gosanke genetics ( albeit at a disadvantage due to no body pattern), have potential for good jitai-- and a tancho is the poster child for Jitai study.
    JR

  5. #25
    Tosai
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    Okayama Momotaro-koi farm Auction

    Looking at tancho no 1 and 2... which one would be a better fish guys?


    Cheers,
    Pau

  6. #26
    Daihonmei
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    Good Morning Pau, unfortunately we can't really tell from the photos. The flash is too strong to determine details of skin. Details that are so very important in tancho selecting. The tancho themselves are either photo shop adjusted in LIGHTING setting and/or contrast, that you can't really see the edges of the plate.
    In the end, most photos give you a sense of bodyline and pattern. But true color and details of skin are not usually available to the human eye in flat photos.
    This is why I say, everyone serious about learning about the details of a good show fish needs to belong to a ZNA chapter that has teaching judges and mentors to guide you or just be someone to bounce your observations and ideas off of. Without that, you will be getting comments on internet boards from folks that might have discovered the hobby last September but are very enthusiastic and willing to share their opinions-- usually based on the pattern and its balance. Fun, no doubt, but a bad way to try and learn as there is no underpinning or weighting to comments about a photo contest.

    Knowing the breeder as you do ( reputation) you can make certain assumptions about quality. But one must always accept the risk taken when shopping for koi by photo. Having done it myself back when I brought my own pets from Japan based on pictures, I can tell you that even if you are not ripped off, you will find that the photos just didn't shows things that you will see INSTANTLY when you open the box!
    A good dealer relationship will also help greatly in making choices when that dealer has seen the fish in the 'flesh'. JR

  7. #27
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Good Morning Pau, unfortunately we can't really tell from the photos. The flash is too strong to determine details of skin. Details that are so very important in tancho selecting. The tancho themselves are either photo shop adjusted in LIGHTING setting and/or contrast, that you can't really see the edges of the plate.
    In the end, most photos give you a sense of bodyline and pattern. But true color and details of skin are not usually available to the human eye in flat photos.
    This is why I say, everyone serious about learning about the details of a good show fish needs to belong to a ZNA chapter that has teaching judges and mentors to guide you or just be someone to bounce your observations and ideas off of. Without that, you will be getting comments on iternet boards from folks that might have discovered the hobby last September but are very enthusiastic and willing to share their opinions-- usually based on the pattern and its balance. Fun, no doubt, but a bad way to try and learn as there is no underpinning or weighting to comments about a photo contest.

    Knowing the breeder as you do ( reputation) you can make certain assumptions about quality. But one must always accept the risk taken when shopping for koi by photo. Having done it myself back when I brought my own pets from Japan based on pictures, I can tell you that even if you are not ripped off, you will find that the photos just didn't shows things that you will see INSTANTLY when you open the box!
    A good dealer realtionship will also help greatly in making choices when that dealer has seen the fish in the 'flesh'. JR
    Hi JR,

    I believe there's a video file of each fish in the website, maybe you could give it a view.

    Processing and registering all these information in my brain hard drive ...

    Pau

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