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Thread: Tancho

  1. #1
    Tosai
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    46

    Tancho

    Hi everyone,

    I am planning to purchase a momotaro Tancho. I would love to hear the experience and story of owners of tancho, maybe tips of what to look for/watch out for. I notice the beni circle seem to be super round, could it be natural?

    Thankx guys,
    Pau

  2. #2
    Tosai
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    Bandung, Indonesia
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    I have experience with Tancho from Matsue Koi Farm. Important things to consider when buying Tancho for me (in order of most to least important):
    1. Body Confirmation
    2. White Shiroji (non negotiable, must be white without any hint of yellow)
    3. Beni quality: edge of the red dot (tancho) must be sharp without any breakage or leak. You don't want the tancho shape to change or, God forbid, break in the future.
    4. Tancho placement: Must be centered on the head. Slightly misplaced tancho will give impression of bent body, because there's no other beni in the body to balance the pattern. Mine is a bit off from center and not perfectly round, so when she swims it gives an impression of slightly bent body, especially in the gill plate area.

    Some people like perfectly round shape tancho, but I don't really care about the shape of the dot itself as long as it gives an impression of balance to the whole body.

    Enjoy your Tancho. Must have in any pond, at least one.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tancho-tancho-matsue-59-cm.jpg  

  3. #3
    Daihonmei
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    Yep, that is the ZNA judging standard for Tancho. JR

  4. #4
    Daihonmei
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    Apologies if I take this thread off track but a second cup of coffee has me going---
    We often talk about 'what a koi variety should look like" and some of the serious enthusiasts mention breeders and thoughts of third generation kids of famous breeders. Or even favorite dealer criteria are referenced as words of wisdom.
    I often wonder to myself when I hear these things what the writer is talking about and if they realize that there is a bigger picture to what they are innocently envisioning as 'source'?
    Often the young buck collector can be so enamored with a breeder that they see koi as a dream and vision of the breeder in a vacuum creating every new forms of koi. A true artist. In truth, there are very few innovators of new koi in 2012! If any! There are awesomely talented imitators however. The truth is, the artist can only create what the genes are capable of producing, so the decades of brand new varieties is really over. Hard to hear I know.
    But I'm drifting off subject---
    All breeders must breed towards a standard. They don't make that standard. The innovator can break it but that is a rare event.
    It is the standard (ZNA standard actually) that SHOW fish are created for. If that were not the case, then individual preference would rule and a tancho could have a piebald red plate on its cheeks rather than its head! But it doesn't-- the standard calls for it to be a white fish with its Beni plate on the skull. And in detail, not off the skull or showing Beni anywhere else on the body. So the collector might like a tancho with beni on the head and another on the dorsal making it all red in that fin. And an eccentric breeder might like the idea of a tancho with a tancho on the head and all the fins a bright red-- and that collector might pay a fortune for the look! But that is not a show fish and will come in dead last in every koi competition. KOI are created for the show and the show is an amateur event covered by amateur show standards. It is a circle. JR

  5. #5
    Sansai monscine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_iwanto View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I am planning to purchase a momotaro Tancho. I would love to hear the experience and story of owners of tancho, maybe tips of what to look for/watch out for. I notice the beni circle seem to be super round, could it be natural?

    Thankx guys,
    Pau
    Bro Pau,

    The things that you aware have been well said by Eagerly and JR. To the question of red circle, it could be natural and or it could be cosmetic. It doens't really matter. Sometimes, it more like a square circle, sometimes it looks like a mushroom. Make the body conformation as the first priority instead of the patterns. The color and skin quality become the 2nd. Pattern would be a bonus. Those are for me right now

  6. #6
    Daihonmei
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    10 extract bonus points for you Monscine!

    Look at koi and their contests as three contests in on and as ;

    First show -juveniles and Pattern and color finish is most important in that contest! Body being simply normal, expectional and unexceptional.

    Second show- Pre pubescent adults and young adults- the beginning of maturit brings out male and female differences as an omni-present consideration. The pattern is important and so is color but elements of skin differentiation bring out skin and quality elements. So the considerations get more numerous and this is the hardest judging to get right!

    Third show- The adult show and mature adult show take on an entrely different focus. Now body, skin and dimension of color take over and pattern becomes very secondary in that weighting of elements.

    JR

  7. #7
    Sansai monscine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    10 extract bonus points for you Monscine!

    Look at koi and their contests as three contests in on and as ;

    First show -juveniles and Pattern and color finish is most important in that contest! Body being simply normal, expectional and unexceptional.

    Second show- Pre pubescent adults and young adults- the beginning of maturit brings out male and female differences as an omni-present consideration. The pattern is important and so is color but elements of skin differentiation bring out skin and quality elements. So the considerations get more numerous and this is the hardest judging to get right!

    Third show- The adult show and mature adult show take on an entrely different focus. Now body, skin and dimension of color take over and pattern becomes very secondary in that weighting of elements.

    JR
    100 point for you JR

    Pau, if you are going into the show, these are the very true guidance

  8. #8
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    What is the recommended age to buy Tancho (ie. Sanke, Showa, Kohaku), if the above guidelines are met?

  9. #9
    Daihonmei
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    T, I'm not sure if you are asking me or the poster of the photo? JR

  10. #10
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Without regard to the judging aspect..... I consider Tancho a work of art quite different from all other koi. I would dearly love to have one, but my pond tends to produce shimmies, so I do without. I have looked for a Tancho Sanke, thinking an odd shimmy would not matter so much, but I find them more difficult to meet my 'artistic sense'. For me, unlike gosanke, great conformation, large body and high quality are not enough for Tancho or Tancho Sanke. Pattern is huge to my enjoyment of them. A slightly off-center maruten can be devastating to my enjoyment. An odd shape can be fine, but only if it is balanced and well-placed. For a Tancho Sanke, the sumi has to be balanced and create an artistic whole in relation to the maruten. If there is too much sumi, or too little, the fish bothers my eye. For me, Tancho and Tancho Sanke are all about pattern. And, that pattern needs to be on a grand canvas. With gosanke, the koi can be wonderfully imposing even with pattern flaws. For Tancho and Tancho Sanke, pattern defines the variety.

    Now, Tancho Showa is in a different class in my eye. Balance is not quite as important. There is an abstract art to the Tancho Showa that allows me to enjoy their beauty even with imperfections in pattern. But, I do get turned off when the sumi so obliterates the maruten as to give only a half-moon. But, sumi through the maruten like black lightening across a red sun... Oh, that is wondrously beautiful.

    Like I said, judging criteria put to the side....

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