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Thread: add water conditioner when changer water

  1. #21
    Sansai almostgeorgia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    ....Dilution is the solution to pollution.....
    MCA, just curious, are you the originator of this little saying on Koi-Bito, or simply another person who finds this succinct phrase very useful?

    I ask only because I've used this little saying with so many new koi keepers that I feel like I owe someone some copyright infringement fees!

  2. #22
    Sansai
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    Wouldn't know who MCA is even if he was standing on my foot. I first heard it at Father Meck's water class.

  3. #23
    MCA
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    That phrase expresses one of the fundimentals very well. If I did help create or push it...glad to have been part of the effort. But I can not claim ownership. I can't remember back that far....

  4. #24
    Tosai thanhsonnguyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hairbear View Post
    What product do you use that you pay $50 per month.
    What is its name?
    Pond Solutions Ultimate 1 gl, i talk with bro dinh, he tell me buy some Crystal... ,i'm go store buy they give me 1 bag look like salt litte more biger( look like bio), mix with 2 gl and then when change water 1/2 cup mix for 500 gl, i'm not sure that one or not

  5. #25
    MCA
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    The crystals are likely sodium thiosulphate (ST). They look like salt or sugar crystals. Personally I never mix them into a solution. I just toss them into my pond over the top of the air domes on the bottom drains. That current easily dissolves the crystals and mixes the ST into the pond water.

  6. #26
    Tosai thanhsonnguyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    The crystals are likely sodium thiosulphate (ST). They look like salt or sugar crystals. Personally I never mix them into a solution. I just toss them into my pond over the top of the air domes on the bottom drains. That current easily dissolves the crystals and mixes the ST into the pond water.
    if you toss them go down bottom, and how many?? lb or gam to need?

  7. #27
    MCA
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    yes they go to the bottom...and will disolve in the current in the pond. If you want to disolve them first in a container of water and pour them in...no problem.

    I know how many crystals I need to put into my pond for a typical water change based on watching a calibrated ORP meter to see that I add just enough to keep the ORP from rising as a result of chlorine. So I can not tell you how many grams you will need for X gallons of new water with Y amounts of chlorine/chloramine you need to add. For our typical water change of 1500 gallons I only need around a teaspoon of crystals. You do not have to be extemely accurate with ST as there is minimal risk of overdose. You would likely have to put in pounds of the crystals to create a significant problem. So get with your fellow koi keepers in the area for the recommended dosage for the amount of water you are changing. Again, a great place to start is local club members and any local KHAs. The bay area should be full of koi keepers and have several KHAs.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  8. #28
    Tosai thanhsonnguyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    yes they go to the bottom...and will disolve in the current in the pond. If you want to disolve them first in water and pour them in...no problem.
    how much? i'm need to add, it big bag can mix with 2 gl( 1/2 cup mix 500 gl)

  9. #29
    MCA
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    excerpt from Pond Water Chemistry by Norm Meck



    CHLORINE
    Measurement:
    Chlorine (Cl), measured in ppm, is a gas which has been added to tap water to control harmful bacteria. City provided tap water is normally found to have 0.5 - 3.0 ppm but higher surges are sometimes observed. Some city water supplies can still be found that either do not require chlorination or may have the chlorine removed before the water is distributed. This would not be of concern to those who take their tap water directly from a private well. Droplet and pill test kits are available. Recommended test kit range 0 - 4 ppm. A chlorine test kit is not considered necessary for the average pond.

    Acceptable concentration 0

    Effects:
    Chlorine is a quick killer in fairly low concentrations (less than 0.5 ppm). Even in very small concentrations, it burns the edges of the gills with long term after effects. It also can be deadly to the bio-converter bacteria.


    Treatment
    :
    In an open container, water will release about 1/4 of the chlorine concentration per day to the air . Water that has set in an open container for a week or just for a couple days if aerated, is normally safe to use or better yet, pretreat tap water with one of the commercial chemical products. Follow the manufacturer's directions (Or make your own).

    Homemade Chlorine Neutralizer
    Make a solution consisting of 4 ounces (1/4 lb) Sodium Thiosulfate crystals (photo or technical grade) dissolved in 1 gallon of distilled or deionized water. Use 5 ml (1 teaspoon) of the solution for each 10 gallons of makeup water to neutralize up to 3.75 ppm chlorine. One cup can be used for each 500 gallons. (The entire one gallon of solution will treat about 7500 gallons of tap water.) The shelf life of the solution is about six months when stored in a cool location. The crystals will keep for several years if kept dry.

    When pretreating replacement water, the dosage is for the quantity of water being replaced, not the total pond capacity! Although it would be better to treat all tap water being added, small amounts of replacement water without dechlorination treatment are often added without noticeable effects to the fish. It is recommended that any time more than one percent of the pond water is being added, it be treated. Do not use chlorinated tap water to clean your bio converter (filter) media unless you are actually trying to sterilize it. Water from the pond is a much better choice for this task.


    CHLORAMINE
    Chloramine is a compound of chlorine and ammonia that is also added to tap water to control bacteria. It can also be formed by adding water containing free chlorine to a pond containing ammonia. If any ammonia is present in a pond, be sure and treat it before adding any tap water containing chlorine. To determine if chloramine is in your tap water, fill a 5 gallon bucket with tap water, add the proper amount of chlorine neutralizer, and then test the water for ammonia using your ammonia test kit. Chloramine is present if a positive indication of ammonia is found. Chloramine is difficult to measure quantitatively in low concentrations, and particularly when a combination of chlorine and chloramine is present.

    Acceptable concentration 0
    Chloramine does not decrease concentration nearly as fast as chlorine when exposed to air. It produces the same general effects as chlorine but is usually found in the lower concentrations that result in long term damage to the fish. The same treatment actions as for chlorine apply except that the ammonia remains after neutralization. A "healthy" bio-converter will take care of the ammonia or a chemical treatment may be used. Some commercial products incorporate treatment to both neutralize the chlorine
    and bind the ammonia components at the same time. Check the manufacturer's directions.

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