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Thread: biofilter establishment

  1. #11
    Daihonmei
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    When we set up a pond or aquarium we are actually setting up a 'world' in which our charges will live out their entire lives.
    And all too often the beginner sees the aquarium or the pond as a container holding water. Water that we put our fish in and all is done.
    In truth, the fish are the largest biomass but in terms of numbers, they are somewhere in the .000000 spot! There are literally hundreds of millions of bacteria, algal cells and misc. species in your typical 5000 gallon koi pond. And they keep the pond, not the fish. O and they also 'keep' the fish!
    So when we fill the pond with water where do those very first cells come from? Besides a bottle? JR

  2. #12
    Meg
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    Oyagoi Meg's Avatar
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    on the smallest level, dust dirt in the air, slime coat of the fish, our hand when we put them in the water, basically everything that gets into or touches the water brings hitchhickers along with it, if conditions are right the right invaders multiply and colonize.





    can ya tell I am totally winging it

  3. #13
    Sansai
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    Where do the first cells come from? That is more of a religious or philosophy question with no real answer.

    But where do the first cells come from that populate a new pond is easier. The cells are omnipresent... we just create a suitable home for them to divide and multiply. All the special techniques that people swear by are efforts to create a more suitable home.

  4. #14
    Tategoi
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    Which came first (in the pond) -- the buttermilk-marinated raw chicken.....or the egg?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer Steve View Post
    But where do the first cells come from that populate a new pond is easier. The cells are omnipresent... we just create a suitable home for them to divide and multiply. All the special techniques that people swear by are efforts to create a more suitable home.
    Yup.....as many early proponents of the scientific-based "germ theory" went on to prove......Perhaps most- notably proven by Pasteur's now famous "swan-necked flask" experiments.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by weesec01 View Post
    I would run the whole system at salt level of 0.5%, and add-in the fish at one go. 2 days later start feeding them, do a back wash at settlement chamber and water change daily to dilute the salt level slowly. Biofilter will slowly activate.
    Alright.....I must ask.....what would be the purpose of adding salt in this situation?

  7. #17
    MCA
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    For me we are still back to two key startup questions.
    1: Do I have fish day one or not
    2: how quickly must this be up and running for fish (if not day one)

    I always want to start from scratch if possible so that Mother Nature will provide the bacteria from the air around us. No need for bottled anything....unless time is of the essence.

    If the new system needs to be up and running now, then you had better have some "sueezings" from a known good filter (in a pond system without parasites please) or, get a bottle of refrigerated bacteria from Fritz in Dallas.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  8. #18
    Daihonmei
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    well those where some pretty good answers! But in the case of fish ponds and aquariums, the bacteria typically are introduced by the fish!
    No nutrient-- no cells that attach as no chemical signal can be given! But add nutrient and there is a signal. But possibly not a critical mass of cells -- or put another way, only over an extended period of time.

    BUT add water or filter media and you have introduction. But what 99% of the ponders out there don't realize is that your koi carry nitrifiers in their body and on their body and in the the water they bring to the pond. Koi are browsers and ingest mass quantities of bacteria. They also pass a weak ammonia/urea stream from the vent constantly. This provides a perfect seeding process for your pond. In a sense, the koi is self contained when it comes to seeding to its needs. And in one form nitrifiers are omni present in pond water. And therefore, on the fish.
    So natural method-- best method. Artifical method, second best method for this reason and also because the pond will linger that much longer in New Pond syndrome phase when artifical sources of ammonium are used. Clean but not too clean is the idea. This is due to the overlap of heterotrophic cycling after the nitrifers are cycled but not fully mature as a biofilm as the organics build. JR

  9. #19
    Nisai
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    Wink

    I knew that all along, lol, I can even give you the info that says so it’s a middle school project they teach in school.
    http://www.umsl.edu/~microbes/middle.htm

  10. #20
    Tategoi andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    well those where some pretty good answers! But in the case of fish ponds and aquariums, the bacteria typically are introduced by the fish!
    No nutrient-- no cells that attach as no chemical signal can be given! But add nutrient and there is a signal. But possibly not a critical mass of cells -- or put another way, only over an extended period of time.

    BUT add water or filter media and you have introduction. But what 99% of the ponders out there don't realize is that your koi carry nitrifiers in their body and on their body and in the the water they bring to the pond. Koi are browsers and ingest mass quantities of bacteria. They also pass a weak ammonia/urea stream from the vent constantly. This provides a perfect seeding process for your pond. In a sense, the koi is self contained when it comes to seeding to its needs. And in one form nitrifiers are omni present in pond water. And therefore, on the fish.
    So natural method-- best method. Artifical method, second best method for this reason and also because the pond will linger that much longer in New Pond syndrome phase when artifical sources of ammonium are used. Clean but not too clean is the idea. This is due to the overlap of heterotrophic cycling after the nitrifers are cycled but not fully mature as a biofilm as the organics build. JR
    Not sure about this one.... can u expand.

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