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Thread: Flashing

  1. #11
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300wby View Post
    If I bypass my filters for a couple days won't all the beneficial bacteria die.
    I use PP for a duration of 5 hr then neutrelize with hydrogen peroxide
    So no harm to filters
    Regards
    Eugene

  2. #12
    Tosai Koicrazy's Avatar
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    My understanding is that hydrogen peroxide clears the color from doing a PP treatment, but Sodium Thiosulfate is what is used to actually neutralize it. So...after I've treated with PP, and when I'm ready to stop it, I put in ST, wait an hour, then H2O2.
    I've read that this helps the koi to adjust to the drop in ORP...

  3. #13
    Daihonmei
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    I love the internet ! ORP is not a water parameter! It is a indicator of general water conditions so addition of chemicals effects the components that make up the ORP reading. PP is a powerful oxidant and as such, it damages any living and dead tissues, leaving less organic behind and residue from its basic compound. This is why I introduced the use of ORP meters to the water gardeners that were using PP so casually and recklessly a decade ago, now. I showed to to the websites of that day as a way to get them to appreciate two things-- the power of a PP charge and 2) the potential effect on koi gills and reason that koi bleed from their gills so frequently in ponds that get PP hits on a regular basis. And of course hydrogen peroxide is a second oxidant! So when I introduced the use of ORP meters for monitoring PP reaction it was not meant to be a TOOL to determine how little damage could be done!

    The 'brown' you see is protein and residue from PP. you can add even more chemicals to the water ( and further attack the kois tissues such as its deleicate gills) or you can simply do a simple water change to restore conditions. Your call, but I certainly know which course I would choose.
    A word of caution-- there are websites that recommend pond cures 'over the net'. These can only be generalities and although well meaning, are dangerous. This is because a diagnosis via generalities can cause a newbie to destroy a system and the inhabitants within. so Please, work within a 'living group' or person and especially clubs and chapters for your best diagnosis possible. this should ALWAYS involve:
    1) a pond visit by an informed/experienced koi keeper within your chapter
    2) a professional koi dealer can also help here- especially if they sold you the fish
    3) a complete history of the pond shared and collected by the one helping you
    4) a battery of water tests
    5) a physical exam of the fish including a slime coat exam for parasites
    6) THEN and ONLY then-- a treatment that is appropriate to the specific problem that was diagnosed.

    But I digress----- JR

  4. #14
    Nisai
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    Can someone please explain how to use pp in detail for a 700 gallon indoor pond? I've looked on the net but I find so many different answers and I know I can trust what I'm told on here. I'm not sure what I should do I haven't seen any Koi flash in a few days. But I want to treat for flukes because there was some when we did a scrape. Thanks

  5. #15
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300wby View Post
    Can someone please explain how to use pp in detail for a 700 gallon indoor pond? I've looked on the net but I find so many different answers and I know I can trust what I'm told on here. I'm not sure what I should do I haven't seen any Koi flash in a few days. But I want to treat for flukes because there was some when we did a scrape. Thanks
    Since you did not get any replies here is what I would do;
    1 Read safety instructions on PP
    2 Wear eye protection gloves and old clothes as pp will stain
    3 You will need a tea spoon a 5 gal pail and a bottle of Hydrogen peroxide
    4 Fill 5 gal pail with water and then add a level tea spoon full of pp powder
    5 Stir well and get a container to dip into solution.
    6 Make sure that you have all aeration you have running.
    7 Gradually add to pond water which will turn pink.
    8 When you have poured in half of solution stop and observe.
    9 If water starts to loose its pink coloring after one HR add more solution
    10 Observe fish and do not stray too far you probably will need to add all
    your solution on first treatment. A further treatment will probably require
    less.
    11 It would be desirable to have a nice pink color for about 5hr before you see a clearing and the color turning brown.
    12 After 5 hr or if you see some discomfort in fish stop treatment
    13 You end the treatment by pouring a tea cup full of Hydrogen Peroxide
    in pond.
    14 You will see a lot of brown bubbles and scum on water these skim off.
    15 Remember if filter was running you will not have any bacteria in filters
    and if you by pass filters you might have not killed all the parasites.
    Hope this helps.
    May be others can comment on suggested treatment
    Regards
    Eugene

  6. #16
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugeneg View Post
    Since you did not get any replies here is what I would do;
    1 Read safety instructions on PP
    2 Wear eye protection gloves and old clothes as pp will stain
    3 You will need a tea spoon a 5 gal pail and a bottle of Hydrogen peroxide
    4 Fill 5 gal pail with water and then add a level tea spoon full of pp powder
    5 Stir well and get a container to dip into solution.
    6 Make sure that you have all aeration you have running.
    7 Gradually add to pond water which will turn pink.
    8 When you have poured in half of solution stop and observe.
    9 If water starts to loose its pink coloring after one HR add more solution
    10 Observe fish and do not stray too far you probably will need to add all
    your solution on first treatment. A further treatment will probably require
    less.
    11 It would be desirable to have a nice pink color for about 5hr before you see a clearing and the color turning brown.
    12 After 5 hr or if you see some discomfort in fish stop treatment
    13 You end the treatment by pouring a tea cup full of Hydrogen Peroxide
    in pond.
    14 You will see a lot of brown bubbles and scum on water these skim off.
    15 Remember if filter was running you will not have any bacteria in filters
    and if you by pass filters you might have not killed all the parasites.
    Hope this helps.
    May be others can comment on suggested treatment
    Regards
    Eugene
    Thanks. I will bypass my filter, can I hook my filter back up as soon as I put in the peroxide?

  7. #17
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300wby View Post
    Thanks. I will bypass my filter, can I hook my filter back up as soon as I put in the peroxide?
    Yes but first drain and flush the filters as you could have floating paresites and then run filters for a comlete cycle or at least 2hr followed by a 50% water change if that is possible.
    Regards
    Eugene

  8. #18
    Sansai
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    Using PP without knowing the concentration you are using and by colour alone is to my mind Russian roulette. I use a chemical balance and decide on whether I'm using 1, 2 or 4 ppm. Yes you may need to repeat if the colour goes to quickly (using an ORP meter is much more sensitive). Once you've added a second dose then the colour is almost unreadable.

    Remember that PP is pretty toxic at over 4ppm. At 1ppm it can go through your filter quite safely. Heaped / level/ big / small teaspoons just aren't accurate enough imho.

  9. #19
    Nisai
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    Is proudly pot term the same thing as potassium permangeanate? They told me it is but I want to be sure. How many grams for 700 gallons.

  10. #20
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pondlife View Post
    Using PP without knowing the concentration you are using and by colour alone is to my mind Russian roulette. I use a chemical balance and decide on whether I'm using 1, 2 or 4 ppm. Yes you may need to repeat if the colour goes to quickly (using an ORP meter is much more sensitive). Once you've added a second dose then the colour is almost unreadable.

    Remember that PP is pretty toxic at over 4ppm. At 1ppm it can go through your filter quite safely. Heaped / level/ big / small teaspoons just aren't accurate enough imho.
    The dosage recommended is between 2 and 4 ppm . The reason being that it is an unknowing because the big factor is the organic matter in the water. So at 2ppm it is possible that you will not kill anything yet at 4ppm
    you could kill your fish.
    I looked up the dosage and Page 99 of DR Johnson book it states 2-5mg/Liter. That is quite a range. Further in his book he suggests making a test solution and then having ten Jars to determine by color what solution to use that will stay pink for 12hr
    I have been using the 5ml to a 1000gal . It just happens that a level tea spoon is just a shade below 5ml of powder. I use a graduated sliding baking scale marked in one ml .
    The method which I use will not kill fish but the short duration might not kill all the parasites I give two treatments I would rather use salt but for 15000 gal pricey.
    PP is dangerous and fatal if the dosage is not correct. So I still go along with a simple measurement a level tea spoon for a 1000 gal and checking the color. Color is best viewed in a glass against a white background.
    Regards
    Eugene

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