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Thread: tetracycline question

  1. #1
    Tosai kougs's Avatar
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    Mar 2012
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    lake stevens, washington
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    45

    tetracycline question

    Is tetracycline all it's read up to be? In the pill form. Don't do needles. Does it really help with internal and external bacterial infections as well as fin and tail rot, bacterial Gill disease, open red sores, hemorrhagic septicemia, body slime and eye cloud. Yes I copied all this. Sounds like it's a go to drug?

    Thanx for any responses

  2. #2
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    7,642
    Good Morning. Tetracycline is one of those technqiues that is akin to 'finger crossing' compared to say, injecting fish ( which is highly effective).

    So adding antibiotic to the water or to food is better than nothing-- but just maybe slightly "better than nothing".

    The bacterial infections you describe are really usually associated with ponds that are extremely high in bacteria count.
    This time of year, however, these symptoms can also be due to exhausted koi that were left out all winter. Or typically, a combination of the two factors I just described. Indeed it usually takes BOTH a weak fish and lots of bacteria to create the opportunity for 'disease'.

    So if you try tetracycline food and tetracycline water treatment, DO also do frequent 10% water changes ( every other day) and add salt to the system. Lighly clean your filters twice a week for the first week and then once a week for the next four, warm your water if that is possible ( solar tent over the pond will help). make sure there are no dead spots in the pond that are collecting detritus. And do not feed anything other than the treated food and onlt small amounts twice a day.
    The idea here is to SLOWLY change all water parameters and sanitiary conditions for the better. And at the same time, strengthing your koi's immune response ( salt, warmth, food, water quality).
    Because your koi and its environment are SO inter-related, you need to improve the pond and the koi. One without the other and the problems will continue your fish die back in numbers.

    You might also try joining a koi club or ZNA chapter. Next year ( march of 2013) ZNA chapters will be asked to assign a member as health officer. This person will be in touch with other health officers from all 10 ZNA chapters. located around the USA and plugged into chapters in Japan, Europe, China etc. And people like yourself will have that as a resource as a member of ZNA. Not internet advise, but real advise. And hands on attention. Until then, seek out the chapters for members that are established and might visist your pond to give advise. JR

  3. #3
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Dec 2003
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    Orlando, Florida
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    11,128
    JR has covered it. I'll add... Have you tried giving a pill to a koi? Good luck! Learning to inject would be easier.

    We do not hear as much about injecting antibiotics as just 10 years ago. Perhaps it was a hot topic back then because folks were just catching on to doing it. To some extent, I think we hear less because koikeeping practices have greatly improved among those who are so into koi as to have an interest in such matters... such as the folks who frequent internet koi forums. Bacterial infections have become an unusual event among kichi. They were much more common when folks were learning what it takes to keep koi healthy.

    Antibiotic injections were adopted because they work. Treating an entire pond is impractical for most and harmful to the bio-community balance. Treatment in a hospital tank can be done, but if it is not pre-established with its own mature filtration system, maintenance requires close monitoring of the water and considerable work. If the infection is caught at the early stages, water treatment is more likely to be effective. At advanced stages, water treatment is not so effective. If the fish are still eating, medicated food is helpful despite being unable to control the dosage. Oftentimes, however, fish with these conditions have ceased eating or eat very little.

    As always, prevention is best. That means staying on top of water quality year-round, continuously, not just when the mood strikes to go clean up the pond.

    Of course, there are still many thousands of koi succumbing to preventable bacterial infections every year. Countless of them can be found in all those garden ponds where the fish were added for a splash of color by those with no real interest in fishkeeping. Economically, it is often less expensive to simply replace the fish, like buying annual flowers for the garden. Among those who focus on fishkeeping, a lot has been learned. Bacterial infections are uncommon and are spotted quickly when they do occur. Prevention works.

  4. #4
    Tosai kougs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    lake stevens, washington
    Posts
    45

    tetrcycline

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    JR has covered it. I'll add... Have you tried giving a pill to a koi? Good luck! Learning to inject would be easier.

    We do not hear as much about injecting antibiotics as just 10 years ago. Perhaps it was a hot topic back then because folks were just catching on to doing it. To some extent, I think we hear less because koikeeping practices have greatly improved among those who are so into koi as to have an interest in such matters... such as the folks who frequent internet koi forums. Bacterial infections have become an unusual event among kichi. They were much more common when folks were learning what it takes to keep koi healthy.

    Antibiotic injections were adopted because they work. Treating an entire pond is impractical for most and harmful to the bio-community balance. Treatment in a hospital tank can be done, but if it is not pre-established with its own mature filtration system, maintenance requires close monitoring of the water and considerable work. If the infection is caught at the early stages, water treatment is more likely to be effective. At advanced stages, water treatment is not so effective. If the fish are still eating, medicated food is helpful despite being unable to control the dosage. Oftentimes, however, fish with these conditions have ceased eating or eat very little.

    As always, prevention is best. That means staying on top of water quality year-round, continuously, not just when the mood strikes to go clean up the pond.

    Of course, there are still many thousands of koi succumbing to preventable bacterial infections every year. Countless of them can be found in all those garden ponds where the fish were added for a splash of color by those with no real interest in fishkeeping. Economically, it is often less expensive to simply replace the fish, like buying annual flowers for the garden. Among those who focus on fishkeeping, a lot has been learned. Bacterial infections are uncommon and are spotted quickly when they do occur. Prevention works.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Good Morning. Tetracycline is one of those technqiues that is akin to 'finger crossing' compared to say, injecting fish ( which is highly effective).

    So adding antibiotic to the water or to food is better than nothing-- but just maybe slightly "better than nothing".

    The bacterial infections you describe are really usually associated with ponds that are extremely high in bacteria count.
    This time of year, however, these symptoms can also be due to exhausted koi that were left out all winter. Or typically, a combination of the two factors I just described. Indeed it usually takes BOTH a weak fish and lots of bacteria to create the opportunity for 'disease'.

    So if you try tetracycline food and tetracycline water treatment, DO also do frequent 10% water changes ( every other day) and add salt to the system. Lighly clean your filters twice a week for the first week and then once a week for the next four, warm your water if that is possible ( solar tent over the pond will help). make sure there are no dead spots in the pond that are collecting detritus. And do not feed anything other than the treated food and onlt small amounts twice a day.
    The idea here is to SLOWLY change all water parameters and sanitiary conditions for the better. And at the same time, strengthing your koi's immune response ( salt, warmth, food, water quality).
    Because your koi and its environment are SO inter-related, you need to improve the pond and the koi. One without the other and the problems will continue your fish die back in numbers.

    You might also try joining a koi club or ZNA chapter. Next year ( march of 2013) ZNA chapters will be asked to assign a member as health officer. This person will be in touch with other health officers from all 10 ZNA chapters. located around the USA and plugged into chapters in Japan, Europe, China etc. And people like yourself will have that as a resource as a member of ZNA. Not internet advise, but real advise. And hands on attention. Until then, seek out the chapters for members that are established and might visist your pond to give advise. JR
    Thank you JR and Mike for your answers. I am in this for the long haul and just this last weekend sent in my registration fee and monies to join the Washington Koi and Watergarden Society. I'm excited about learning lots about this facinating hobby. There is so much to this that I wasn't aware of and thought all the reading I had done before I placed the shovel in the dirt to start the dig of my pond was enough to be comfortable. It's been an eye opening for me but I'm not freaking out. I believe my water quality is okay with reading constant at Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Phosphate 0.0 and PH reading 8.0 to 8.5. I have a skimmer, an Aqua Ultima II 10000 bead filter and Aqua Classic 80watt UV filter. I did add a prefilter that the bottom drain feeds and 8 inch airstone close to the waterfall. I'm sure I'm missing other things but that's why I ask lots of questions.

    I did loose 4 of my big ones about three weeks ago because I had thought that placing them in a QT and salting would help their illness. And then finding out that they really weren't sick.

  5. #5
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,642
    Good for you! It is a long learning curve. But the more you seek out experienced hobbyists, the quicker/shorter your learning curve will be.

    My last bit of advise--- always keep your focus on the 'big picture' and don't get too pulled into internet advise about adding this chemical or adding that chemical. WAY too much of the internet is focused on the negative aspects of the hobby-- the diseases. Instead of focusing on becoming an 'expert' in disease, try and become an expert on koi needs.
    This means their environment, their physiology and their unque needs compared to other water garden species. The secret on fish issues is knowing when to act and when not to react.
    If you know the koi, and build it's ideal environment, you will have no need for trivia-like level details on fish diseases. JR

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