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Thread: Water Changes

  1. #231
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacicu View Post
    If you do more frequent but less % of water change as compared to more sudden water change but less frequent with the volume of water change per month same then the former gets better results when it comes to skin development based on my experience.
    Not confused anymore

  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacicu View Post
    If you do more frequent but less % of water change as compared to more sudden water change but less frequent with the volume of water change per month same then the former gets better results when it comes to skin development based on my experience.
    What do you attribute this to sacicu?

    The pond pH should be close to that of your fresh water. We normally add fresh water slowly so temperature differences should be negligible. Adding the good (ORP, low TDS, a bit of KH) should be positive. Provided no nasties in the fresh water (metals, CO2, nitrogen derivatives, chlorine, phosphate, the toxic stuff sometimes found in well water) I cannot explain what you are experiencing. I know it is commonly believed that a constant trickle is better than the old 'Saturday-afternoon-all-at-once-water-change'. But why?

    The only explanation I can offer, and it really is just my opinion, is that fish get stressed when the water level drops significantly during that once a week water change.

  3. #233
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
    What do you attribute this to sacicu?

    The pond pH should be close to that of your fresh water. We normally add fresh water slowly so temperature differences should be negligible. Adding the good (ORP, low TDS, a bit of KH) should be positive. Provided no nasties in the fresh water (metals, CO2, nitrogen derivatives, chlorine, phosphate, the toxic stuff sometimes found in well water) I cannot explain what you are experiencing. I know it is commonly believed that a constant trickle is better than the old 'Saturday-afternoon-all-at-once-water-change'. But why?

    The only explanation I can offer, and it really is just my opinion, is that fish get stressed when the water level drops significantly during that once a week water change.

    Personally I think it has something to do with sudden increase in ORP levels in the water that affects the beni development.

    Koi especially gosanke prefer a constant water quality. Even if you can match the Ph of the source water, the new water would mean a higher ORP levels compared to "old water". If the water change is not enough and pollution level becomes high, skin quality gets affected also. Too high ORP levels and skin quality gets affected as well.

    Many Japanese breeders prefer mudponds( sometimes seeded with fertilizer to promote life) rather than raising koi in concrete ponds with constant water changes because skin develops better along with growth.

    The advantage of mudponds is the very low stocking rate to water volume ratio that does not require constant water change that will increase the ORP (oxidative) levels but because of the sheer volume, ammonia and pollution levels are neglible.

    Whenever I joined a growout event before, I would grow the gosanke koi in a small pond with constant feed and very high water change. Because of this constant high and low ORP levels , this would promote growth but at the expense of skin development . One month before the event, I would feed very little, cool slightly the water and cutback on the water change( just enough to whiten the shiroji but consolitate the beni and bring out the shine. The skin would improve a lot while growth was neglible.
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  4. #234
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    On another board a question came up about percentage water changes. The poster observed that he surely did not need to do as large a percentage water change when his pond was lightly stocked compared to a heavily stocked pond. That is probably true, but heavier feeding of the few fish in the lightly stocked pond, and perhaps more leaves and pollen falling in, could result in the lightly stocked pond actually needing more fresh water compared to a heavily stocked pond where the fish are seldom fed. It highlights why percentage guidelines are just shortcuts.

    To determine the amount of water change appropriate, I use nitrate levels as a 'marker' for contaminants. (Nitrate is one contaminant that is readily measured. Numerous other contaminants are always present, but not readily identified or measured.) Decide what level of nitrate is the max you want in the pond. That may be a goal of being under 5ppm, or perhaps your decision is 25ppm or some other level. Then calculate how much fresh water is needed to dilute the nitrate level to reach your goal. For example, if your goal is 20ppm and the nitrate level is 80ppm, you would need to change out 75% of the pond volume (assuming your source water has no nitrate). But, that is too much to do at one time IMO. I would not exceed a 50% water change absent an emergency situation. So, let's say you do a 50% water change, reducing nitrate overall to 40ppm. The next week you test and find nitrate is at 50ppm. You now know that during the week 10ppm of nitrate got created through biological processes related to feeding, fish respiration, pollen & leaves, etc. If that occurs virtually every week, you can calculate a course of action to gradually bring nitrate down toward your goal. If you have to do more than a 30-35% water change per week to reach your goal, then I would suggest you either learn to live with a higher level of contamination than you prefer, or that you alter the stocking/feeding practices so that less nitrate is being produced weekly. ....The percentages that float around are useful only because they make it easy for folks who do not want to be bothered by testing. Figuring out the actual condition of the pond water seems a very basic thing folks would want to do, but most folks really prefer to work in the dark, making general guidelines their holy grail, rather than gaining an understanding of their own situation.
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  5. #235
    MCA
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    But if you have a good nitrate denitrification chamber, you could have very low nitrates and still need to do major routine water changes to take out other pollution and bring in fresh electrolytes...etc.

    Reminds me of a club member in Ft. Worth over 10 years ago that had a pH crash. We were all amazed given that the local water was liquid limestone. Come to find out....they had never been doing serious water changes....just topping off from backwashing the bead filters and making up for evaporation. Even with liquid limestone, the KH was finally depleted and the pH fell.

    Dilution remains as the main solution to pond pollution.
    MikeM likes this.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

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