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Thread: I have all parasites

  1. #1
    Tategoi Yamato's Avatar
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    I have all parasites

    When My Koi arrived in SA, We did a scrap, and found costia, trihodina, white spot and flukes...I actually saw one of each..no matter how much I looked and scrapped lots of fish...some had nothing. Not too sure of the type of fluke...hard for me to recognise that one, but looked more like gill fluke.
    In SA they were given PP, saponver plus, and MGF...
    Now they are home.
    I have given them 0.3% SALT, 2 PP TREATMENTS SO FAR, 5 dAYS AFTER THEY ARRIVED, AND 8 DAYS....Now I want to give them MGF two days later....and do one more saponver treatment (for gill flukes)
    Please advise how should I proceed.
    How many days apart, water changes...is salt a problem for the MGF, how many days in between?
    It is becoming a bit too complicated for me to treat for so many parasites.
    It is winter here now...and the water is 15*C.
    All my fish are in QT, 6 of them....separated by breeders.
    The QT has no filtration, but I vacuum the floor and change 20% WATER EVERY DAY.
    I also maintain the salt level at ).3% with a salt meter.
    I have 50 fish in 7000 liter QT half nisai.
    am I doing it right ? Any advise?

  2. #2
    Oyagoi kingkong's Avatar
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    Wow, what a load.
    First of all this Seponver Plus drug. The read says it has been abandoned by J&J. Must be a type of Supaverm Closantel/Mebendazole.
    I do not mix formalin/PP with salt in water.

  3. #3
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Have you checked to see if there are still parasites? The PP should have taken care of most of what you list.

    Ich can be a challenge due to its life cycle, but it is easy to treat with salt at 0.6% for 2 weeks assuming water temperature is in the 25C and higher range.

    Flukes are a different problem. If you had livebearing flukes, they may have already been eliminated. The egglaying flukes are more problematical due to the life cycle... the eggs are not killed by the usual treatments.

    Do not use salt with MG/F. I think it best not to mix treatments unless a particular combination has been well-established (like combining MG with F).

    These fish have already been treated so much that I think it particularly important not to expose them to any unnnecessary chemicals.

  4. #4
    Daihonmei
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    Yam, let me help---
    You seem to have a good approach in that you are approaching it systamatically and that is good.

    PP will fry all protozoa-- that would include costia, chilodonella, Trichodina and Ich (white spot a little tricky).

    The name of this game. of course, is to kill the infestation without killing/weakening already weak koi ( from shipping).

    So PP first as a few of those species mentioned carry and aid aeromonas and you don't need to fall a floor lower into that nightmare! Water quality is key there so keep the water quality stable and high.

    After you have PP'd and had an 8 hour reaction, do a 40% water change and rest the koi a day.
    The use a compound for flukes. there are many, I prefer organos. They are multi present in anti-fluke products. I have also used Form/mal green many many times and it also works well. But Organos crush flukes especially combination compounds that act as a one two punch for both species of flukes ( gill & body).

    So slow, be deliberate and know what you are doing and why. Best of luck, JR

  5. #5
    Tategoi Yamato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingkong View Post
    Wow, what a load.
    First of all this Seponver Plus drug. The read says it has been abandoned by J&J. Must be a type of Supaverm Closantel/Mebendazole.
    I do not mix formalin/PP with salt in water.
    I have info that says that less than 0.3% salt is OK with PP and MGF, but have no personal experience apart from PP which I used 3 times with salt at 0.3%..
    But despite assurances that MGF is OK with less than 0.3 % salt, I will be scared to use it.
    Thanks!

  6. #6
    Tategoi Yamato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Have you checked to see if there are still parasites? The PP should have taken care of most of what you list.

    Ich can be a challenge due to its life cycle, but it is easy to treat with salt at 0.6% for 2 weeks assuming water temperature is in the 25C and higher range.

    Flukes are a different problem. If you had livebearing flukes, they may have already been eliminated. The egglaying flukes are more problematical due to the life cycle... the eggs are not killed by the usual treatments.

    Do not use salt with MG/F. I think it best not to mix treatments unless a particular combination has been well-established (like combining MG with F).


    These fish have already been treated so much that I think it particularly important not to expose them to any unnnecessary chemicals.
    Thanks Mike,
    I think 3 times PP is enough in two weeks....I agree.
    Now I want to Pu something for the flukes and the white spot.
    When in SA some goshiki had like white deposit on the skin...today I can see it again.
    I need to sort the white spot and the flukes...since the fish is stressed so much that serious infestation can break out.
    Since U say PP is enough for the protosoan...tomorrow I will connect the filters, and do first saponver or MGF not to sure yet...change the water...and after few days do the other one.
    I am terrified of parasites.

  7. #7
    Tategoi Yamato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Yam, let me help---
    You seem to have a good approach in that you are approaching it systamtically and that is good.

    PP will fry all protozoa-- that would include costia, chilodonella, Trichodina and Ich (white spot a little tricky).
    Just confirm 3 times PP is enough please.

    The name of this game. of course, is to kill the infestation without killing/weakening already weak koi ( from shipping).
    Need to treat with MGF for white spot and saponer (that is all I have, but it is good) for the flukes. So I will do the saponver first...twice I think is enough for that one.

    So PP first as a few of those species mentioned carry and aid aeromonas and you don't need to fall a floor lower into that nightmare! Water quality is key there so keep the water quality stable and high.
    I will connect tomorrow the filters, if I dont need to do any more PP. Saponver and MGF dont set the filters too much back. The filters were prepared before I went to Japan almost 3 month ago, so I guess they will be a help. I cleaned them...
    After you have PP'd and had an 8 hour reaction, do a 40% water change and rest the koi a day.
    What do U mean by 8 hour reaction...to put PP untill the water says pink for 8 hours...I just put one dose at 3ppm scared to add pp again so soon, but I guess if anything escaped the PP the MGF will take care of it. Is there any Koi protosoan that I have,that is not killed by MGF?
    The use a compound for flukes. there are many, I only have insecticides here...like melathion...got from SA sapover plus and that is what every one uses there. They say it is very good.I prefer organos. They are multi present in anti-fluke products. I have also used Form/mal green many many times and it also works well. But Organos crush flukes especially combination compounds that act as a one two punch for both species of flukes ( gill & body).

    So slow, be deliberate and know what you are doing and why. Best of luck, JR
    So then I will do the MGF 3 days after The gill treatment...Maybe I do the MGF first for the white spot? They had one saponver in SA.
    I do the MGF first, then over 3 day period change most of the water...then do one saponver....rest them for 4 days while changing most of the water a bit every day...and do again MGF...for the white spot..By then the heater will be here and I will warm then up, so the ich and flukes hatch faster.. I will put a heater tomorrow.
    What do U think about this plan?
    I had one fish with ulcers starting today...treated it and gave it an injection...
    Discovered also that one showa from sakai has a deformed pectoral fin...and one goshiki has a deformed mouth...
    I was sick for few fays now, and had to drug my self with effort outside...but managed some how...

  8. #8
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato View Post
    So then I will do the MGF 3 days after The gill treatment...Maybe I do the MGF first for the white spot? They had one saponver in SA.
    I do the MGF first, then over 3 day period change most of the water...then do one saponver....rest them for 4 days while changing most of the water a bit every day...and do again MGF...for the white spot..By then the heater will be here and I will warm then up, so the ich and flukes hatch faster.. I will put a heater tomorrow.
    What do U think about this plan?
    I had one fish with ulcers starting today...treated it and gave it an injection...
    Discovered also that one showa from sakai has a deformed pectoral fin...and one goshiki has a deformed mouth...
    I was sick for few fays now, and had to drug my self with effort outside...but managed some how...
    Not per 'body part' but per grouping of species of parasites that are suspectible to compounds--
    salt for the fish ( and a negative for some of the parasites)
    PP to kill protozoa
    organo or form/mal for the flukes

    JR

  9. #9
    Tategoi Yamato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Not per 'body part' but per grouping of species of parasites that are suspectible to compounds--
    I was thinking in the same lines...PP for bacteria and protosoans...MGF for ich...and S+ for flukes...salt for some parasites...slime coat...destress.
    salt for the fish ( and a negative for some of the parasites)
    PP to kill protozoa
    organo or form/mal for the flukes

    JR
    Thanks Darling...No longer shivering...lost one fish...so I was in a panic.

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