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Thread: New guy issue #2. pH is 9.0 remember this is a cleaned and restarted pond.

  1. #1
    Tosai
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    New guy issue #2. pH is 9.0 remember this is a cleaned and restarted pond.

    ph is 9. Salt=0. Nitrites=0. And ammonia=0.

    Water is still too cloudy IMO. May add more blue dye and have considered a few things. One is patience. Which I do not have. The other is some type of covering. Like a pool cover but easier to remove an move. What else can kill the algae. UV clarifier bulb needs changing but I have had it working in the past and found balls of dead algae in the middle of cloudy water.

    pH lowering pond product has been added and will adjust slowly. What else can control the algae?

  2. #2
    Meg
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    Oyagoi Meg's Avatar
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    If this is a "new/restarted pond" so everything is kinda like from day one fresh start situation...it will take time for the pond to cycle and you will be dealing with "new pond sysdrome" for a year as the pond cycles not just through the filters kicking into gear(about six weeks) but as they also settle into the seasons of your area.

    how long has the pond been up and running, what is the fish load?
    I just lowered my fish load in my 3000 gallon pond from 7 koi sizes ranging from 26 inches to 12 inches down to 5 koi ( [email protected] 26-24", [email protected] 18-20" and one 12") in two days the claritly of the water is so much better now that two 26 inch koi are out. and mine you, I never had issues with my water test reading, just clarity

  3. #3
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    What is the pH of your source water? ...place source water in a plastic pail or tub and measure the pH after several hours. It can be informative to measure pH immediately, an hour later, 6 hours later, 12 hours later and 24 hours later. It gives you an idea of the dissolved gasses in the water. It is unusual to have source water with a pH of 9.0. After we know the source water pH, we can discuss the situation more usefully. ...Using acids to lower pH is problematical and best avoided. (I am thinking it is possible your pond is concrete without a waterproofing coating, or the coating has worn off in places.)

    You are back to discussing algae again. Cloudiness in the water is not necessarily algae. It can be a bacterial bloom or fine 'dirt'. The blue dye may deter algae, including beneficial algae carpeting the walls and floor of the pond. However, if you can still see the fish, then light is reaching the algae. The main benefit of the dye is to hide what is there, not eliminate what you do not want.

    If you have not gotten a book on koikeeping published since 2000, go to the library and check out one. Skip the chapters about all the varieties, etc., and go straight to the sections on pond design, filtration and maintenance. After you get the 'big picture', we can better discuss the details the books cover rather superficially. (Technical stuff and science don't sell well.)

  4. #4
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algaemaster View Post
    ph is 9. Salt=0. Nitrites=0. And ammonia=0.

    Water is still too cloudy IMO. May add more blue dye and have considered a few things. One is patience. Which I do not have. Then you are doomed in this hobby as patience is more than a virtue, it is the key to success.

    The other is some type of covering. Like a pool cover but easier to remove an move. What else can kill the algae. UV clarifier bulb needs changing but I have had it working in the past and found balls of dead algae in the middle of cloudy water.
    With this thinking you are destine to wonder in the wilderness for a long time. Its a severe learning curve you face.

    pH lowering pond product has been added and will adjust slowly. What else can control the algae?
    I'm not sure a guy/gal like yourself can be helped as you are marching to the beat of your own drum. You seem to want to select bits and pieces of input and ignore things you know you should not.
    I hope I'm not bring to hard on you when I say, you difinitely need to experience the hard knocks as you go along your line of thinking.

    The internet answers you seek are;

    1) adjust your pH downward to read like it should according to the internet
    2) cover your pond ( the internet often recommends solar blanks
    3) dye your water dark blus
    4) install ozone units and a FF to make the water sparkle like a swimming pool.
    5) add a sand filter to strain out algae
    6) PP the pond weekly to make the water sparkle
    7) add a copper algicide to kill all algae
    8) add salt to kill bacteria in cloudy water and algae that hates salt
    9) throw clay on the hair algae to smother it
    10) add a sand bed for natural denitrification to have zero nitrates
    11) add baking soda to make your biolfiters stronger
    12) add rotting barley hay to the pond
    13) get a pond vaccum
    14) draw pond down and scape walls clean every season


    Now these are things you will read- BUT THINGS YOU SHOULD NOT DO! But things that ponders do every day to try and battle ( a never ending battle) algae and cloudy water.
    The answers you will eventually come to on your own over the next three years or so are simplier:

    1) get past new pond syndrome
    2) resist adding everything recommended on the internet ( often by sales people in disguise).
    3) respect your ponds natural biology. This means do not try and kill everything to make a koi pond look like a swimming pool
    4) DO install new UV bulbs every spring
    5) do stop feeding when water is green or cloudy and don't do as many water changes when water is cloudy. that is a sign that your pond's micro organisms are struggling for balance and the organic content in the water is a problem , yes but it can be delt with after the bacteria have consumed it-- then you can begin water changes in ernest.
    6) Did I mention, stop feeding? It is also a good idea not to have more than one tosai per 150 gallons or one adult koi per 250 gallons
    7) check your water turn over--- once every two hours minimum.
    8) clean your sumps twice a week in summer -- even during that time when I suggested no water changes.

    9) and above all-- learn patience. It is a virture and a key corner stone for every successful koi keeper. JR

  5. #5
    Sansai
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    Usual great advice from JR (he always cheers me up).

    I set up a new second pond myself last summer. New pond water isn't something to be proud of. It's a mess frankly and you have to be patient to let it all settle down.

    I had readings all over the place for the first couple of months. Ignore the algae, it's the least of your worries. I would be worried about your pH 9 water though - sounds like cement to me.

  6. #6
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by pondlife View Post
    Usual great advice from JR (he always cheers me up).

    I set up a new second pond myself last summer. New pond water isn't something to be proud of. It's a mess frankly and you have to be patient to let it all settle down.

    I had readings all over the place for the first couple of months. Ignore the algae, it's the least of your worries. I would be worried about your pH 9 water though - sounds like cement to me.
    Not cement. Vinyl lined pond. I DO need a lower fish count and will have friend with large net over soon.

    I really still want to harp on a type of shade or cover. The way my house is angled, during the summer months I do not think you guys can appreciate the amount of direct sunlight. Imagine your koi in a child's plastic pool in a parking lot at noon. I am in Houston Texas so this is considerable heat. And OBSCENE amounts of direct sunlight. Give me some ideas of what you guys have done to shade your ponds.

    BTW I appreciate all input and even harsh criticism. But if it gets too harsh I will begin "Will you help me?" posts. Pics of my sad koi babies in murky conditions discussing their plight. Think the animal rescue adds with Sarah Maclaughlin singing while sad photos of dogs are shown

    I will not abuse my koi mind you. Just neglect by ignorance.

    Everything else I have listened to and will try to be patient. I am not doing away with my pressurized bio- ball filter but would love ideas on a DYI second filter. A bottom fed bog filter that filters through layers of media to an overflow.

    Please help. I would like to change my screen name. Maybe Master of Pet Store Quality Koi. Then eventually to Tancho Master!

    I can dream.

  7. #7
    Sansai
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    I like "master of petshop koi".
    If it's a liner and pH9 then you still need to find out what is causing that.

    I'm in the UK so I'd love to have enough sun to need a shade. Most people seem to erect a pergola that can have various screens on it. Not difficult but can look rubbish if not done well. The answer to algae isn't shade however it is good water quality with low nitrates (and an upto date UV bulb).

    Remember that your pressurised bioball filter actually isn't a bio filter at all. So you need to set up a proper filter. If home made then bakki showers are the easiest and most effective, imho.

  8. #8
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algaemaster View Post
    Not cement. Vinyl lined pond. I DO need a lower fish count and will have friend with large net over soon.

    I really still want to harp on a type of shade or cover. The way my house is angled, during the summer months I do not think you guys can appreciate the amount of direct sunlight. Imagine your koi in a child's plastic pool in a parking lot at noon. I am in Houston Texas so this is considerable heat. And OBSCENE amounts of direct sunlight. Give me some ideas of what you guys have done to shade your ponds.

    BTW I appreciate all input and even harsh criticism. But if it gets too harsh I will begin "Will you help me?" posts. Pics of my sad koi babies in murky conditions discussing their plight. Think the animal rescue adds with Sarah Maclaughlin singing while sad photos of dogs are shown

    I will not abuse my koi mind you. Just neglect by ignorance.

    Everything else I have listened to and will try to be patient. I am not doing away with my pressurized bio- ball filter but would love ideas on a DYI second filter. A bottom fed bog filter that filters through layers of media to an overflow.

    Please help. I would like to change my screen name. Maybe Master of Pet Store Quality Koi. Then eventually to Tancho Master!

    I can dream.
    Not to worry or be offended! Just a little tough love. Please read my post again a month or so into the experience you are now living through. It could help explain things in hide sight. Best of luck. JR

  9. #9
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    I think it is important to have shading, particularly in warm climates, for lots of reasons. If you go to the Best of Bito forum there is an old thread about my pond build 'polyurea spray liner pond'. On pages 17-20 of that thread there are pictures of a fairly simple shade structure using shadecloth. It took 2 people to erect it, but the work was simple for anyone handy with wood and not too complex for a carpentry simpleton like myself. Do not use treated lumber. Do use rot resistant wood. I used western cedar with Thompson's Water Sealant applied to the uprights, which are sunk in cement in the ground. Despite being in rot-inducing Florida climate, it has been 7 years and the structure is still standing.

    With no shading from house or trees, I would use 80% shadecloth if it can be found. It is not as available as it was a couple of decades ago. Currently, 70% shade is about as dense as is readily available. There are commercial horticulture supply houses that have the best prices. See if there is a B&T Nursery Supply located within driving distance.

  10. #10
    Tosai
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    I have read about and am very interested in a Bakki waterfall filter. Any specific info on these? Materials? I am not opposed to buying one but I am cheap so DIY sounds good but not if too in depth.

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