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Thread: Cheap Koi for learning.

  1. #1
    Tategoi Yamato's Avatar
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    Cheap Koi for learning.

    I know U dont like commenting on Koi like this...but I will still show them to U..
    My Koi from Japan I will post later...
    I bought some Koi in SA for resale...300 of them....already sold some and covered my expenses...what ever I sale now it will be profit...
    I bought them at USD1.5 each...People here want cheap Koi...and they dont know what a kohaku is...
    It will help me with the new pond build....(bought everything and the digging is almost done.)
    Ones I put the new Koi in the new pond I will have two large intex with filtration empty...so I decided I can grow some of them there...
    They are a good value for USD1.5....and U can not expect much from Koi of that price...but I want to have some fun with them...observe them...maybe sale them later when they are bigger...for a better profit...but basically have my type of fun with them...Will keep around 6-7...
    I liked the shusui there...though I think they have too little Hi...but maybe U can tell me if more Hi will come later...Their body shape is not bad...a bit decent for now...But they have red fins, nice even zip and spme red on the tummy.
    The bigger Koi are from SA from the auction and are more:2 kohaku, goshiki and yamabuki...I did not want to mix them with my Japanese fish.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cheap Koi for learning.-dsc08529-2-640x551-.jpg   Cheap Koi for learning.-dsc08530-640x468-.jpg   Cheap Koi for learning.-dsc08536-626x640-.jpg   Cheap Koi for learning.-dsc08538-640x480-.jpg   Cheap Koi for learning.-dsc08540-640x383-.jpg  

    Cheap Koi for learning.-dsc08543-519x640-.jpg   Cheap Koi for learning.-dsc08544-640x541-.jpg   Cheap Koi for learning.-dsc08547-480x640-.jpg   Cheap Koi for learning.-dsc08553-640x480-.jpg  

  2. #2
    Tategoi Yamato's Avatar
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    Do U know what the brown fish on the bottom with black is? or is crapagoi?

  3. #3
    Jumbo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato View Post
    Do U know what the brown fish on the bottom with black is? or is crapagoi?
    I am not sure, but maybe a Cha Utsuri or Tora Ogon without sheen...

  4. #4
    Tategoi Yamato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kindai View Post
    I am not sure, but maybe a Cha Utsuri or Tora Ogon without sheen...
    SK san....I will try to get a better picture...It sounds interesting what U said...Thank U!
    What do U think about them?
    Are U lost for words? ...for my lottery tickets....He he he!
    Should I keep the ones with the circles?
    The one in the triangle is a bad example of budo goromo...
    I want to find out what is The tora ogon??????never heard it before...going to googlle it now...
    What do U think will the shusui get more red later?

  5. #5
    Oyagoi kingkong's Avatar
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    I just erased my critique because you still owe me from the last time. Are you the collector from Africa?

  6. #6
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    A mixed assortment like this can contain some interesting oddball fish worth keeping around for a while just to enjoy the range of possibilities. Hikariutsuri types are often very eye-catching when small. The contrast of metallic color against black can be dramatic. They seldom remain desirable as they pass the 18-inch mark. The few that do are worth some pond space. The Tora Ogon, or Tiger Ogon, can be thought of as sort of like a metallic Ki Utsuri. It has the Ogon base with sumi wrapping, like tiger stripes. Good examples are rare. The Ogon base is usually weak in color and the sumi is retarded as is typically the case in metallics. Progress in the development of nishikigoi left the Tora Ogon in the dust, but back in the 1960s they were appreciated for the difference they brought to the pond. Back then, lots of colorful names were given to fish we lump together as 'pretty pond fish' today. Koi were just coming into the popular awareness in post-WWII Japan. Much of the early excitement was over the wide range of colors and patterns. It took a while for quality traits to get all the attention.

    Cha Utsuri is looked down on by breeders as inherently lacking in the quality traits they seek. Most are rather dull, with the sumi more a charcoal watercolor than a high gloss paint. They do not attain the great size of Chagoi, but often grow fast compared to gosanke and can attain the bulk of Chagoi. For the typical hobbyist pond, they grow big enough!

    So, your curious 'brown fish' might play the role of a Chagoi in a pond of gosanke... a dark, dull fish that heightens the brightness of the white-based gosanke. It may not be sufficiently metallic to be considered Tora Ogon, and too-Ogon to be Cha Utsuri. But, for the role of court jester, it might do fine.

  7. #7
    Tategoi Yamato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingkong View Post
    I just erased my critique because you still owe me from the last time. Are you the collector from Africa?
    He he he!
    U are getting old! I paid U! have U forgotten?

  8. #8
    Tategoi Yamato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    A mixed assortment like this can contain some interesting oddball fish worth keeping around for a while just to enjoy the range of possibilities. Hikariutsuri types are often very eye-catching when small. The contrast of metallic color against black can be dramatic. They seldom remain desirable as they pass the 18-inch mark. The few that do are worth some pond space. The Tora Ogon, or Tiger Ogon, can be thought of as sort of like a metallic Ki Utsuri. It has the Ogon base with sumi wrapping, like tiger stripes. Good examples are rare. The Ogon base is usually weak in color and the sumi is retarded as is typically the case in metallics. Progress in the development of nishikigoi left the Tora Ogon in the dust, but back in the 1960s they were appreciated for the difference they brought to the pond. Back then, lots of colorful names were given to fish we lump together as 'pretty pond fish' today. Koi were just coming into the popular awareness in post-WWII Japan. Much of the early excitement was over the wide range of colors and patterns. It took a while for quality traits to get all the attention.

    Cha Utsuri is looked down on by breeders as inherently lacking in the quality traits they seek. Most are rather dull, with the sumi more a charcoal watercolor than a high gloss paint. They do not attain the great size of Chagoi, but often grow fast compared to gosanke and can attain the bulk of Chagoi. For the typical hobbyist pond, they grow big enough!

    So, your curious 'brown fish' might play the role of a Chagoi in a pond of gosanke... a dark, dull fish that heightens the brightness of the white-based gosanke. It may not be sufficiently metallic to be considered Tora Ogon, and too-Ogon to be Cha Utsuri. But, for the role of court jester, it might do fine.
    Thanks Mike,
    No wonder I did not hear about it...I was wondering what it is...since it is looking like utsuri but it is brown...Dull for sure and already!
    I dont plan to keep it for ever...maybe for few month only...or even not at all.
    I like this gin rin ochiba, two step kohaku,and a couple of gin rin white and yellow matsubas...plus a pearl gin rin tancho goromo or gosgiki???

    The yellow fish with green on top I dont know what it is ...thought it might be Ki shusui...not sure.
    and I posted a better picture of the brown fish with black stripes, and the shusui...I think the goromo has blue like shusui under the red....

  9. #9
    Daihonmei
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    just a brief 'public service announcement' and then I'll return the reader to the regularly scheduled thread ---

    There is certainly such a thing as a 'learner fish'. But usually it means inexpensive fish that a beginner can 'learn on' when it comes to husbandry and general care of koi as a species.
    It is a huge challenge beginners take on--- more often than not, the pond might not be 100% ideal for new show fish. Two) the beginner usually lacks the skills/knowledge/sensitivity it takes to take care of koi as a life form and three) often the pond itself, being new, is kind of like a 'bucking bronco' when it comes to stability and smoothness of operation ( N.P.S.)

    So when I think of learner fish I think of fish that must travel the husbandry/pond management curve with the beginner ( often an all too short life!)

    In koi appreciation as Kayano San will explain, we can discuss elements of pleasing pattern and promising skin. But as learner fish, these fish must be good representatives of their breed. Otherwise we are trying to learn from tateshita or modest grade koi. Not to say something can't be gleened from such and exercise. But one must realize if the grade is very modest there is more an issue of what not to look for as opposed what to look for.
    I know this sounds harsh and I apologize, I just don't want folks to waste their time with ebay purchases that might simply be colored carp or nishikigoi of the worst examples.
    None of these comments refer to your koi Yamato, but it was a golden opportunity to flesh out just what 'learner fish' means. JR

  10. #10
    Tategoi Yamato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    just a brief 'public service announcement' and then I'll return the reader to the regularly scheduled thread ---

    There is certainly such a thing as a 'learner fish'. But usually it means inexpensive fish that a beginner can 'learn on' when it comes to husbandry and general care of koi as a species.
    It is a huge challenge beginners take on--- more often than not, the pond might not be 100% ideal for new show fish. Two) the beginner usually lacks the skills/knowledge/sensitivity it takes to take care of koi as a life form and three) often the pond itself, being new, is kind of like a 'bucking bronco' when it comes to stability and smoothness of operation ( N.P.S.)

    So when I think of learner fish I think of fish that must travel the husbandry/pond management curve with the beginner ( often an all too short life!)

    In koi appreciation as Kayano San will explain, we can discuss elements of pleasing pattern and promising skin. But as learner fish, these fish must be good representatives of their breed. Otherwise we are trying to learn from tateshita or modest grade koi. Not to say something can't be gleened from such and exercise. But one must realize if the grade is very modest there is more an issue of what not to look for as opposed what to look for.
    I know this sounds harsh and I apologize, I just don't want folks to waste their time with ebay purchases that might simply be colored carp or nishikigoi of the worst examples.
    None of these comments refer to your koi Yamato, but it was a golden opportunity to flesh out just what 'learn fish' means. JR
    He he he! JR Darling, I have illusions that I can win the lottery....
    This will teach me and many more people that is hard to win the lottery!
    But meanwhile all the dreaming...hoping....imagining...will be worth USD1.5...
    And I dont have a single shusui...so out of desperation I want to keep two...
    On the last show in SA a USD3 Koi locally bred won GCb...it was very nice...so it inspired me...it was 80cm+ and very nice Koi...
    They have good standards there.

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