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Thread: Genetics transfered

  1. #11
    Tategoi jacovors's Avatar
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    Breeding Koi is about making MONEY !!!!!!!!!

    Thanks Aldonna,
    I agree that after reading some of the replies it seems to breed koi you must become a monk first.
    Breeding koi for the Japanese in my opinion is about making money first.
    How do you become a succesfull Japanese breeder?
    Answer : you breed an All Japan champion.
    iT IS NOT A HOLY THING AS SOME MAKE IT OUT TO BE
    As JR said on another board, these new indoor koi houses being build all the time can cost as much as 5 mil pounds. Where does the money for this come from?
    I will try to breed koi not to make money but for my own enjoyment.
    If I actually succed in making some money that would ber a bargain.
    I am not insulting anyone by this reply and do get some valuble info from all who replied, but I was a bit frustrated that it seems koi breeding are only for a selected few and no one has the right to enter this area of koi keeping.
    Thanks again to all and who knows maybe I will be breeding good koi 10 years from now or maybe not.
    Jaco.
    Jaco Vorster
    South Africa

  2. #12
    Tategoi Maurice's Avatar
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    Jaco, I started breeding koi cause I love breeding fish, done it all my life.

    Now I've gone totally mad and aim to breed the best 'UK' bred koi available.
    Will I? Who knows, but I'm not just aiming for numbers.

    I think the point Brett is trying to make is that there is a level of quality that should come onto the market. Koi that should have been culled are not, many low-end breeding estabishments are prepared to sell culls for a few cents/pennies and this does the trade no good.

    Set yourself a level of quality and cull the rest.
    My culling standard will go up this year as numbers increase.

    To see culling of harvested tosai at Momotaro is a real eye opener, I realy couldn't believe what they were culling. Far, far better than Japanese garden center koi, but not good enough for Momotaro's name.

    Good luck with your breeding,
    maurice.

  3. #13
    Oyagoi
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    I encourage folks that are interested to try thier hand at backyard breeding. Sit in front of this dang box givng out "free" (and worth every penny) advice on all aspects of the koi hobby, including breeding.

    It is not for everybody to try, but it is another very interesting and potentialy rewarding aspect of the hobby.

    What I do not care for is folks that breed low grade fish trying to "pay for thier hobby" or something, further degrading the state of the hobby in this country (too many bad koi on the market now).

    For me, there is no greater accomplishment as a koi hobbiest than backyard breeding, rearing, selecting, growing, and bringing into show form a fish you spawned your own self and taking it to a show and winning a prize.

    Even just an honorable mention and no "place" with a home bred koi is a far greater achievement than purchasing a grand champ a few weeks before the show for a ton of money and seeing the fish for the first time when you arrive to pick up your trophy.

    Brett
    Brett

  4. #14
    Tategoi jacovors's Avatar
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    Thanks Maurice and Brett,
    I agree totally with my aim also being to breed the best koi I possibly can. I believe you will only harm your own reputation by selling low grade koi.I think personally the greatest achievement by any hobbiest breeder is a supreme prize at a koi show , outcompeting the Japanese rivals.
    Maybe I just misunderstood the whole thing.
    Again sorry guys did not mean to wet my pants.
    I understand what you are trying to say.
    Please promise me when finally my koi are big enough to judge their quality you will tell me to continue or to just stick to keeping Japanese bred koi
    Jaco

  5. #15
    Daihonmei
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    :wink: my my. it has been fun to see this develop ...
    jaco, there is ONLY one thing the Japanese do better than the rest of the koi world...cull.

    Do any of you old or neophyte breeders do (or have done) this.
    FIRST, You just know that either your female (or maybe a male) has the stuff, and you take it and artificially breed it to several males by seperating the eggs into several bowls and adding each males milt to only one batch and then growing out the mini batches in mini ponds.
    I've heard breeders talk about knowing the different fry came from different males used in the same spawn, but ...

    Oh the reason...to speed up finding "The right Match."

  6. #16
    Daihonmei
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    And not to "post block my first question....

    to the Breeders that are a little longer in the barbels than some....do you lay awake at night culling fish to get to sleep, or does it keep you awake?
    And what do you do with the fry that show a common but unique trait to that batch of fry...what makes you keep 'em or cull 'em? And what do you do with them if you keep them?

  7. #17
    Tategoi jacovors's Avatar
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    Thanks Luke,
    I personally do not like artificial spawning and would not trust myself in removing milt or eggs from a koi, not scared just fear of killing them :wink:
    I am noticing colour changes in especially the kohaku fry. They are 6 weeks old now and most 3inches long.Some of the fry are turning bright red while others stay light orange, also is it normal for some fry to have darker and lighter patches of orange over the body?
    Maurice said earlier he thinks the bright red ones would turn out to be male.Anyone know if this is true?
    Cheers
    Jaco.

  8. #18
    Nisai Sanke56's Avatar
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    genetics

    Yes this has been an interesting discussion. Jaco You may not get that show stopper this time but you might too. Don't give up. Culling for conformation should be first and culling for color is another story some koi develop very strangley and if you don't understand how the metamorphosis works you may cull out the show stoppers. On the other hand development doesn't occur well when their are too many fish. I find I have to get a very good look at the fish over a period of time in a well lit glass aquarium before I cull it but of course Koi are raised for their appearance in the pond but. I try not to rush into this part of the culling so I can see how development occurs. One year I picked out about 20 from a spawning but after a year I didn't like any of those I picked out and of course the rest were all gone you can't keep them all. Nutrition and water also play a major role in color formation and growth so this has to be considered too. It would be worthwhile to work for one of the experts for a while to learn more about all the processes. Very interesting indeed!

  9. #19
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    WAS NICE TO SEE bRETT AND bRADY BOTH COMMENTING!
    I think if nothing else, an attempt to breed koi casually by a hobbyists
    allows them to appreciate the art produced by those who choose to do it for a living. Over the months, I have come to appreciate Maurice and his enthusiasm for life and koi! I wish him well as I do our professionals in in the states. I think thier contribution to the hobby will become more and more important with the passing years. Who knows some year when they talk of koi breeders in south africa, Jaco's name may be discussed. The joy of learning is part of the hobby's experience!

  10. #20
    Tategoi Maurice's Avatar
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    Hey Dick, I've got enthusiasm, you can be sure of that!!
    Enough passion for several people, these dam koi rule my life.

    But I would not like it any other way.

    This is the sump area in the filter bay of my new pond, 8' 6" down into sold rock!!

    And this is me, still putting on a brave face!

    Stay lucky,
    Maurice.

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