Home | About Us | Contact Us


Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine straight from Japan
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Genetic Engineering?

  1. #1
    Oyagoi RayJordan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    1,780

    Genetic Engineering?

    Another thread brought up their belief that genetic engineering will eventually take over the koi breeding world and replace the current Japanese koi master breeders. Perhaps that will happen someday but I believe it will be well after my time as a koi keeper. Currently there is the ability to clone many animals including dogs. I have read that some of the owners that had their dog cloned were disappointed because the clone looked like their lost family pet but of course it wasn't the same as far as personality or other traits.

    If it was possible to genetically engineer a animal to look and perform as wanted no doubt race horses would be the first place that would happen. Clones of Secretariat or Sea Biscuit would abound and every owner, trainer, and jockey would settle for nothing less. However when you think about it there would still be winner and losers. Some would make the most of the genetic ability of their animals and other would not. I guess when they start successfully genetically engineer race horses and dogs I will believe that the same will occurs with koi.
    Disclosure:These opinions are based on my experience and conversations with persons I consider accomplished koi keepers and do not reflect the viewpoint of any organization.

  2. #2
    Oyagoi
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Forreston,IL
    Posts
    1,073
    been out of dairy business for what almost 15 years and was big topic back then and was happening.
    believe there has been cloning going on in the dairy side of things for sometime.

    you know Dolly was the first BORN clone

    now a sheep has a shorter gestation then a cow

    and am pretty sure the cow lost out do to gestation cycle.
    I could google to make sure but will let others have the fun.

  3. #3
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,642
    Quote Originally Posted by RayJordan View Post
    Another thread brought up their belief that genetic engineering will eventually take over the koi breeding world and replace the current Japanese koi master breeders. Perhaps that will happen someday but I believe it will be well after my time as a koi keeper. Currently there is the ability to clone many animals including dogs. I have read that some of the owners that had their dog cloned were disappointed because the clone looked like their lost family pet but of course it wasn't the same as far as personality or other traits.

    If it was possible to genetically engineer a animal to look and perform as wanted no doubt race horses would be the first place that would happen. Clones of Secretariat or Sea Biscuit would abound and every owner, trainer, and jockey would settle for nothing less. However when you think about it there would still be winner and losers. Some would make the most of the genetic ability of their animals and other would not. I guess when they start successfully genetically engineer race horses and dogs I will believe that the same will occurs with koi.
    You little devil you! LOLs, Best, Jim

  4. #4
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128
    Well, I do think it is only a matter of time before glo-koi join glo-danios. If I had a tank full of the things at a show, I'm sure I'd sell every one. But, I'd not want one for myself.

    JR... You have glo-danios in your Amano-style plant tank. Would you keep a glo-koi? (I'm thinking a Yamabuki with glo-green. )

  5. #5
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,642
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Well, I do think it is only a matter of time before glo-koi join glo-danios. If I had a tank full of the things at a show, I'm sure I'd sell every one. But, I'd not want one for myself.

    JR... You have glo-danios in your Amano-style plant tank. Would you keep a glo-koi? (I'm thinking a Yamabuki with glo-green. )
    LOLs!!! Uhh, no. I am still wondering what happened to the 'globe koi' that made its appearence in Hong Kong a few years back? It was a purachina with a big head but a fat rounded belly/ stunted body like an oranda! Maybe the nuclear genetic code was lost and we can all relax but that was ONE ugly fish!
    JR

  6. #6
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,642
    Recent reports of serious genetic studies in the orient show a Dr. gene recombin PHD, NGS, SSCS has found evidence that the 'globe koi' is a direct descendent of the wilson basket ball. Dr Lui showed that the B gene for bounce and the b gene for the belly gene when combined under black light and injected with fat cells from swine produces a globe koi. These break thru koi research is much needed for the struggling koi industry. JR

  7. #7
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,642
    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Recent reports of serious genetic studies in the orient show a Dr. gene recombin PHD, NGS, SSCS has found evidence that the 'globe koi' is a direct descendent of the wilson basket ball. Dr Lui showed that the B gene for bounce and the b gene for the belly gene when combined under black light and injected with fat cells from swine produces a globe koi. These break thru koi research is much needed for the struggling koi industry. JR

    Ok, I was being a bit of a 'prat' with this post but a few California friends have Emailed me and asked if I was serious about there actually being a 'globe koi' -- Yes I was being serious! There is one, it was featured in TFH magazine a good five plus years ago now. Best to all my Cal ZNA buds

  8. #8
    Jumbo RobF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    617
    Ray, I thank you for your editing of Nishikigoi Mondo, and it is in that spirit I that I address your questions. To the first of which I’d say that I think it is very unlikely that the Japanese Masters will be replaced by high tech labs in China or Israel. I think it more likely that the established farms (they have the ponds) will just adopt recombinants in a series of stages. Something like: Stage 1: Koi farmers just outcross with recombinant lineages of Common Carp that are developed for enhanced for size and growth rate (such as the tons in China for food), not unlike they did with doitsu, longfins and magoi. Stage 2: Put useful genes selected from Gene Libraries into unfertilized eggs at farms (this is not near as hard to do as would be commonly supposed) for color and maybe pattern. Stage 3: Modify genes to produce de novo nishikigoi.

    As to your further question about a time frame: Stage 1 (outcross with existing recombinant carp) soon if not already. Zhu in 1985 created the first transgenic fish (goldfish). So the Chinese have been doing this stuff from the beginning. Stage 2 (recombinant transgenetics) is being done now, so 2 or 3 years for koi is within reason (once the desirable genes are identified). And Stage 3 (creative) within 10 years, once the sequencing of genes (words) moves on to reading genes (sentences) in the systemic context writing will follow. In many ways what I called stage 1 & 2 are well within current technology, the thing about stage 3 (de novo) is that there is much more to phenotype than is written in the genes. Even discounting environment and chance, there is the new and exciting field of Epigenetics. Epigenetic inheritance involves the histone code as opposed to the DNA code and little has been done in this regard with carp. Manipulations of the epigenome may be a big consideration when one tries to engineer in something like koi pattern or to engineer out something like inbreeding depression.

    But all that said, the Chinese sequenced the Cc genome over a year ago. Once you have the sequence in silico you can easily make comparisons with other genomes and identify areas that are interesting. With the genome cut into convenient pieces and put into a Bacterial Artificial Chromosome (BAC) Library (or the like) you can clone as many copies of any gene from your library as you want. It is then a relatively simple matter to insert the DNA into the fish egg of your choice using long standing transgenic techniques (depending on how tight the targeting desired). As the individual genes are increasingly understood in the larger collective context then the designer genes will come to the fore. The market, rather than our preconceived notions, will likely drive the pace of these innovations. So what the exact timeframe could be, and what the timeframe will be, we will have to see, but God willing you will see. Rob

  9. #9
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128
    Genetic engineering in agriculture is occurring, both with plants and animals. Environmental concerns exist, but once the genie is out of the bottle .... There is no reason to think ornamental fish will not go the same path. Glo-danios are real and are selling. It is just a question of whether the market is sufficient to support all the possibilities. I really was not joking about a Glo-green Yamabuki. A koi with the neon blue of the tropical Cardinal Tetra would surely sell in great quantity. I think I'd have a hard time resisting one of those.

  10. #10
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,642
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Genetic engineering in agriculture is occurring, both with plants and animals. Environmental concerns exist, but once the genie is out of the bottle .... There is no reason to think ornamental fish will not go the same path. Glo-danios are real and are selling. It is just a question of whether the market is sufficient to support all the possibilities. I really was not joking about a Glo-green Yamabuki. A koi with the neon blue of the tropical Cardinal Tetra would surely sell in great quantity. I think I'd have a hard time resisting one of those.

    Do you also collect those 'velvet' paintings sold at certain gas stations? You know the ones of Elvis or the flamenco dancers and bull fighters ?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Genetic Research in Koi
    By BorG in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 09-21-2012, 04:24 PM
  2. Epigenetic Engineering?
    By RobF in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-10-2012, 09:38 AM
  3. Genetic Predisposition to Shimis in Kohaku
    By schildkoi in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 259
    Last Post: 11-09-2010, 08:30 AM
  4. Evolutionary and genetic nomenclature . . .
    By KoiCop in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-12-2006, 09:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Articles - Sitemap - FAQs and Rules

KB Footer Graphic
Straight from Japan... For the serious hobbyist!
All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com