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Thread: First Coast Koi Club 10th Annual Show Results - Jacksonville, FL

  1. #1
    Sansai almostgeorgia's Avatar
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    First Coast Koi Club 10th Annual Show Results - Jacksonville, FL

    Under sunny, 80 degree skies, the First Coast Koi Club wrapped up its 10th Annual Koi Show yesterday. A big, BIG 'thank you' from our members goes out to judges Mike Frady, Steve Childers, Candidate Judge Bart Atkinson, and their gracious wives for making this such a FUN event!

    (And can you spot the Goromo Showa? You don't see one of those swimming around every day)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails First Coast Koi Club 10th Annual Show Results - Jacksonville, FL-fckc-grand-chamnpion.jpg   First Coast Koi Club 10th Annual Show Results - Jacksonville, FL-fckc-reserve-champion-.jpg   First Coast Koi Club 10th Annual Show Results - Jacksonville, FL-fckc-reserve-champion-b.jpg   First Coast Koi Club 10th Annual Show Results - Jacksonville, FL-fckc-young-champion.jpg   First Coast Koi Club 10th Annual Show Results - Jacksonville, FL-fckc-baby-champion.jpg  

    First Coast Koi Club 10th Annual Show Results - Jacksonville, FL-fckc-chairmans-award.jpg   First Coast Koi Club 10th Annual Show Results - Jacksonville, FL-fckc-akca-award.jpg   First Coast Koi Club 10th Annual Show Results - Jacksonville, FL-fckc-best-novice-fish.jpg   First Coast Koi Club 10th Annual Show Results - Jacksonville, FL-fckc-most-unique-goromo-showa.jpg  

  2. #2
    Daihonmei
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    I see a goshiki ( five colors) ? Goshiki is a unique form in that it has no Unique form! Back in the day, Koromo and Goshikigoi have transformed them selves and at times liked completely different and at the same time, the same. One of the keys to differentiation is base. And both today can appear in white or black base. The reason for potential confusion is because they share exactly the same color genetics but different pattern expression.
    So if we begin with base color we see goromo as ;

    1) old style and new style ( black or white base)
    2) degrees of gene expression for pattern ( full or restricted)

    Goshikigoi on the other hand is a combination of these restrictions and full patterns- forming what it often looked at as five different colors as the black overlaps in some areas and not in other pattern restricted areas. some show 'blue' or 'purple' in really special individuals.

    Today, in the ideal we see ai goromo as the 'king of the hill' in goromo. Although the modern versions produced by Famous breeders will come from a gosanke breeding cross and bring both 'modern and regressive gormo and goshiki based on pattern expression.
    This fish is a more primitive type and at a glance looks like kujacku in pattern ( no teri however). Yet the red is a burnt orange and classic of goshiki and the blends of orange and black make for a third color. The head pattern is also showing the classic overlay of colors ( grey/black and orange) which occurs on many goshiki. In the end, a unique fish of that complex variety. JR

  3. #3
    Sansai almostgeorgia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    I see a goshiki ( five colors) ? Goshiki is a unique form in that it has no Unique form! Back in the day, Koromo and Goshikigoi have transformed them selves and at times liked completely different and at the same time, the same. One of the keys to differentiation is base. And both today can appear in white or black base. The reason for potential confusion is because they share exactly the same color genetics but different pattern expression.
    So if we begin with base color we see goromo as ;

    1) old style and new style ( black or white base)
    2) degrees of gene expression for pattern ( full or restricted)

    Goshikigoi on the other hand is a combination of these restrictions and full patterns- forming what it often looked at as five different colors as the black overlaps in some areas and not in other pattern restricted areas. some show 'blue' or 'purple' in really special individuals.

    Today, in the ideal we see ai goromo as the 'king of the hill' in goromo. Although the modern versions produced by Famous breeders will come from a gosanke breeding cross and bring both 'modern and regressive gormo and goshiki based on pattern expression.
    This fish is a more primitive type and at a glance looks like kujacku in pattern ( no teri however). Yet the red is a burnt orange and classic of goshiki and the blends of orange and black make for a third color. The head pattern is also showing the classic overlay of colors ( grey/black and orange) which occurs on many goshiki. In the end, a unique fish of that complex variety. JR
    Thanks for the background on Goromo genetics, JR. The benching team (and I must admit to being a party to this 'error') originally classified this fish as a regular Showa. The fine judging team, as they are trained to do so, reclassified this fish after spotting the presence of black netting over the beni, most prominently in the red 'saddle' just prior to the dorsal fin, but expressed more weakly on other beni areas as well. Sorry, this is a poor quality photo for catching that very distinctive pattern. This classic 'netting', of course, shows up no where over the shiro, and this is as it should be.

    No one from the original importer to the purchaser had any idea this fish would turn out to be what it is (both were present at the show this weekend and marveled at what they had 'wrought') This fish started here in Florida as a little 5" tosai just 3 years ago. Part of the joy of koi keeping I guess --- pattern development can often lead to some interesting twists and entertaining surprises.

  4. #4
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by almostgeorgia View Post
    Thanks for the background on Goromo genetics, JR. The benching team (and I must admit to being a party to this 'error') originally classified this fish as a regular Showa. The fine judging team, as they are trained to do so, reclassified this fish after spotting the presence of black netting over the beni, most prominently in the red 'saddle' just prior to the dorsal fin, but expressed more weakly on other beni areas as well. Sorry, this is a poor quality photo for catching that very distinctive pattern. This classic 'netting', of course, shows up no where over the shiro, and this is as it should be.

    No one from the original importer to the purchaser had any idea this fish would turn out to be what it is (both were present at the show this weekend and marveled at what they had 'wrought') This fish started here in Florida as a little 5" tosai just 3 years ago. Part of the joy of koi keeping I guess --- pattern development can often lead to some interesting twists and entertaining surprises.


    right and that is the reason we should see the 'whole fish' as a combination of gene traits. by getting down on all fours to see patches within the pattern is to loose one's way. the fish will tell you what it is if you consider this--

    1) koi are a collection of mutation traits ( in this case 'matsuba/asagi" traits) and like a giant roulette wheel, combinations will appear in different ways on individual fish. In the case of 'old school' showa/goshiki or sanke goromo, it is the culling that completes the variety as a named individual. In truth, it is a hypenated name or hybrid of varieties.
    2) since the mutations come in linked combinations ( or at least often do) we give them names. Just consider how reticulation and ornamental borders appear in 'color zones' gives an individual a name. This brings us back to something we often miss in the west-- is the reticulation on the base color or is the reticulation held within a color pattern. remember, color pattern is a combination of two core expressions- 1) the color as a relationship to the base and 2) the expression of that color and reticulation within a pattern expression.

    So generally speaking, goromo will restrict reticulation within pattern expression and goshiki will not.
    It is important not to look at odd koi as misprinted coins! Or keep the idea that koi from Japan have a tag hidden somehwere as to what variety they are. Koi traits are like a giant roulette wheel. And culling makes these combinations 'orderly' and appear as if there are actual true breeding results. If a koi was not culled because of the stage of development it is in or because a breeder thinks he can sell it any way, we should not think that the koi is a good representative of a variety. Indeed, all koi should be considered against the standard before enetering them into the show so that the show itself reflects the knowledge and level of the members of that chapter. We all need to begin somewhere of course, so general koi often find their way into the show. And a unique individual can add to the conversation. But as a practice it is the teaching judge's duty to raise the level of understanding of koi as show varieties. JR

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