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Thread: Cool Water Feeding Philosophy

  1. #21
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Question: One of the concerns expressed about feeding in low water temperatures is that the food moves more slowly through the digestive system (and at very low temperatures can stay in the gut so long that it begins to rot). Since I do not have experience with 'cold water' winters, I only know what I've read. Is slow movement through the intestines inherently bad/risky? If so, wouldn't it better to use a food that produces waste that is 'loose' rather than firm stools? It isn't a concern for my fish, but re-thinking 'winter feeding' regimens has me wondering about it. I doubt there are any scientific studies on it.

  2. #22
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Question: One of the concerns expressed about feeding in low water temperatures is that the food moves more slowly through the digestive system (and at very low temperatures can stay in the gut so long that it begins to rot). Since I do not have experience with 'cold water' winters, I only know what I've read. Is slow movement through the intestines inherently bad/risky? If so, wouldn't it better to use a food that produces waste that is 'loose' rather than firm stools? It isn't a concern for my fish, but re-thinking 'winter feeding' regimens has me wondering about it. I doubt there are any scientific studies on it.
    When Toshio sent me a shipment of fish and this was in late May the instructions were ; Do not feed for 3 days then soak pellets till they become a mush to help digestion.
    I wish that when people discuss winter feeding they would state the hardiness Zone. For instance I am in 5b
    otherwise it is like talking about apples and oranges.
    In my zone unless covered for the winter and left ice free higher quality koi will not survive while some domestic fish might make it for years.
    It is not just the digestion but one has to take into consideration the bacteria in the filters. I use large water changes and add salt.
    In my 2 ponds located in greenhouse one is heated so the air temp does not drop below 40f and my water temp does not drop below 48. In the non heated one I use water change as not to allow temp to drop below 44f. So if I am lucky they have a dormacy of 3 months. During these 3 months they get some honey Cheerios. The reason for the honey cheerios is that both I and my golden retriver like them.
    Regards
    Eugene

  3. #23
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Question: One of the concerns expressed about feeding in low water temperatures is that the food moves more slowly through the digestive system (and at very low temperatures can stay in the gut so long that it begins to rot). Since I do not have experience with 'cold water' winters, I only know what I've read. Is slow movement through the intestines inherently bad/risky? If so, wouldn't it better to use a food that produces waste that is 'loose' rather than firm stools? It isn't a concern for my fish, but re-thinking 'winter feeding' regimens has me wondering about it. I doubt there are any scientific studies on it.
    The question is is the concern about feeding in low water temperatures is that the food moves more slowly through the digestive system applicable to 55°F pond water temperature.

  4. #24
    Tategoi mtsklar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Question: One of the concerns expressed about feeding in low water temperatures is that the food moves more slowly through the digestive system (and at very low temperatures can stay in the gut so long that it begins to rot). Since I do not have experience with 'cold water' winters, I only know what I've read. Is slow movement through the intestines inherently bad/risky? If so, wouldn't it better to use a food that produces waste that is 'loose' rather than firm stools? It isn't a concern for my fish, but re-thinking 'winter feeding' regimens has me wondering about it. I doubt there are any scientific studies on it.

    Gut transit time at 75F is about 1 hour. When the temperature is 42F the transit time is about 4 days. So feed ingredients that have the potential for fermentaion like grains and legumes would be a concern at low temperatures.

  5. #25
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtsklar View Post
    Gut transit time at 75F is about 1 hour. When the temperature is 42F the transit time is about 4 days. So feed ingredients that have the potential for fermentaion like grains and legumes would be a concern at low temperatures.
    So no Cheerios, stale bread, or cooked rice?

  6. #26
    Tategoi mtsklar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    So no Cheerios, stale bread, or cooked rice?
    Those are all high carbohydrate items, they aren't going to do much for the koi.

  7. #27
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtsklar View Post
    Gut transit time at 75F is about 1 hour. When the temperature is 42F the transit time is about 4 days. So feed ingredients that have the potential for fermentaion like grains and legumes would be a concern at low temperatures.
    You should not even be keeping koi at 42f never mind feeding them. I like to maintain at least 48f for female
    and 44f for male. Feeding usually stops at 48f and in severe winters can last up to 4 months.
    In the case of imported tosai I keep the temerature at 70f the first winter. I have a circulating water system
    in my 7000 gal in the base of cemment floor. That is pricy as due to the fact it is in a greenhouse would now cost well over $3000 as I am useing an oil fired hot water tank.
    Regards
    Eugene

  8. #28
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    I think it would be useful to novice koikeepers following this thread if those who deal with such low temperatures would post the temperature point where they stop all feeding.

  9. #29
    Tategoi mtsklar's Avatar
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    I have experience with feeding koi as low as 38F / 3C.

  10. #30
    Tosai Fishdentist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtsklar View Post
    I have experience with feeding koi as low as 38F / 3C.
    mtsklar, did you feed at this temp for scientific research? Can you share your results. What food did you use, how much did you feed, and over how many days before the next feeding? Could you see any advantages or disadvantages in feeding at this temp? Btw I personally stop feeding at 50F as recommended by our current hobby philosophy. These questions, respectfully are for personal knowledge gains. Thank you in advance.

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