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Thread: Koi spawning demonstration videos

  1. #11
    Nisai
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    Sep 2010
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    did he say milk in video 3 is this to burn off the sticky layer to the eggs.
    also in video whatis the set up of the zugar jars in terms of air and suction

  2. #12
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree.10 View Post
    did he say milk in video 3 is this to burn off the sticky layer to the eggs.
    also in video whatis the set up of the zugar jars in terms of air and suction
    Here are some explanations.

    In video I say “milk” but in reality this is water/milk mix or water with added some milk. The volume ratio is 8 parts of water to 1 part of milk. I would say that this mix do not burn off sticky layer but neutralize it. Oil drops and other small particles from milk attach to eggs and coat them around.

    We use McDonald incubation jars not zugar ones. Zugars are upside-down cones and water supply scheme is different.

    I mention in video 3 that in our hatchery water is heated in close conditions; therefore it contains small air bubbles. These bubbles attach to recently placed in jars eggs and eggs can swim out from jars. To prevent it we place net screens on the top of jars and put heavy rings on screens to make them stable. I mention in video 4 that on second day of eggs incubation there is already no problem with air bubbles. They are still present in water but do not attach to eggs.

    BorG

  3. #13
    Nisai
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    Sep 2010
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    thanks for the info.
    the milk is just normal milk not cream powder or anything.
    when i was asking about suction i was talking about where the water entered the jar and what caused the fish to swim out of the jar dont koi attach to the sides of the tank after taking there first breath

  4. #14
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree.10 View Post
    thanks for the info.
    the milk is just normal milk not cream powder or anything.
    when i was asking about suction i was talking about where the water entered the jar and what caused the fish to swim out of the jar dont koi attach to the sides of the tank after taking there first breath
    Yes, normal milk with red cap from grocery store.

    I attached picture with water circulation in McDonald incubation jar. Water enters the jar through central tube, comes out in different directions near the bottom, then goes up and overflows out.

    Larvae hatched in jar are pretty active and swim out from the jar themself. Their active movement is visible in video 4: in jar (5:11-5:23) and in beaker (6:25-7:45). Non-active and morphologically abnormal larvae stay in jar. Larvae attach to sides of tanks or hapas later.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Koi spawning demonstration videos-mcdonald-jar-water-circulation.jpg  

  5. #15
    Nisai
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    Sep 2010
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    thanks for the reply.
    when the sperm contacts water does it become inactive after 30 seconds so does the milk prevent this as well.
    why do you stir the eggs for 45 minutes

  6. #16
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by tree.10 View Post
    thanks for the reply.
    when the sperm contacts water does it become inactive after 30 seconds so does the milk prevent this as well.
    why do you stir the eggs for 45 minutes
    Membrane (shell) of fish egg is pretty solid and impenetrable for spermatozoa. Spermatozoon can penetrate into the egg only through micropyle – special opening in egg’s shell. Diameter of micropyle is small – only a little bit larger than the size of spermatozoon head. It is considered that if to add water/milk mixture from the beginning of artificial fertilization (instead of water) small particles from milk can clog micropyles in eggs and decrease fertilization rate.

    Motility of koi spermatozoa in water lasts longer than 30 seconds, about 1.5-2 minutes. But this is only part of the story. Another part is that eggs are also activated by water, start absorbing water and swell. Egg’s shell hardens and after about 2 minutes after activation with water micropyle is closed and egg loses ability to be fertilized.

    Even in presence of milk eggs lose adhesiveness slowly. Therefore it needs to stir eggs 45 minutes – one hour. If to stop stirring too early eggs can clump in incubation jars –it will be larger problem than to stir eggs additional 10-15 minutes.

  7. #17
    Fry
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
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    1
    Dear BorG
    Thank you for the videos and clarifications. I have a couple of questions if i may
    1)What is the dosage of the hormone (CPE or Sigma) per a pound of male and female? and what is the ratio of hormone and NaCl 0.25% liquid?
    2)What will happen if the latency period if the temperature is around 28C. Will it be more or less?
    3)what are the time spans (maximum/minimum) from stripping eggs and sperm to mixing them (howmany minutes to mix?), after adding water (howmany minutes to mix?), adding milk (already answered 45 minutes plus)
    4)During the incubation period for around 6-7 days; what are the perfect water conditions for the larvae /fry. Temperature? water parameters(i.e PH) ? Any special water treatments?

    I thank you indeed for your response in advance
    Kind regards
    Yohan

  8. #18
    Jumbo RobF's Avatar
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    Yohan, Welcome to Bito. These are truly excellent videos. Dr. Boris Gomelsky is an infrequent poster at Koibito so to get answers to your questions you should contact him a Kentucky State University. I am sure you can Google the good Doctor.
    KK.Menon likes this.

  9. #19
    Nisai
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    Quote Originally Posted by yohan View Post
    Dear BorG
    Thank you for the videos and clarifications. I have a couple of questions if i may
    1)What is the dosage of the hormone (CPE or Sigma) per a pound of male and female? and what is the ratio of hormone and NaCl 0.25% liquid?
    2)What will happen if the latency period if the temperature is around 28C. Will it be more or less?
    3)what are the time spans (maximum/minimum) from stripping eggs and sperm to mixing them (howmany minutes to mix?), after adding water (howmany minutes to mix?), adding milk (already answered 45 minutes plus)
    4)During the incubation period for around 6-7 days; what are the perfect water conditions for the larvae /fry. Temperature? water parameters(i.e PH) ? Any special water treatments?

    I thank you indeed for your response in advance
    Kind regards
    Yohan
    Yohan,

    Here are answers to your questions:

    1) What is the dosage of the hormone (CPE or Sigma) per a pound of male and female? and what is the ratio of hormone and NaCl 0.25% liquid?

    - Please see Tutorial for calculation of CPE injection in attached PDF file. Concentration of used salt solution is 0.85% (8.5g NaCl per one liter).

    2) What will happen if the latency period if the temperature is around 28C. Will it be more or less?

    - If temperature will be around 28C the latency period will be much shorter; it can be 7-8 hours. Usually the resolving injection is made late night and eggs stripping is planned for the next morning. If temperature is around 28C, I would inject females early in the morning and plan spawning later in the same day. Also, in this case I would use only one injection – 3 mg per kg (preliminary injection is not needed).

    3)what are the timespans (maximum/minimum) from stripping eggs and sperm to mixing them (how many minutes to mix?), after adding water (how many minutes to mix?), adding milk (already answered 45 minutes plus)

    - Usually after stripping of eggs from females, sperm is stripped from males. It is OK to keep ovulated eggs for 30 min – one hour, if needed. Mixing eggs and sperm without water – about 30 seconds, mixing eggs and sperm after adding water – 1.5-2 min. Then diluted milk is added and mixing continues 50 min – one hour.

    4)During the incubation period for around 6-7 days; what are the perfect water conditions for the larvae /fry. Temperature? water parameters(i.e PH) ? Any special water treatments?

    - The optimal temperature for incubation is 22-24 C but, in general, temperature can vary from 20 to 28 C. The rate of development speeds up with temperature increase (embryos will hatch and larvae will swim up sooner). There are no special requirements for water treatment. Water flow rate should be sufficient.

    BorG
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Koi spawning demonstration videos-tutorial-calculation-cpe-injection.pdf  

  10. #20
    Tategoi bobbysuzanna's Avatar
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    I just reread this thread and found it very interesting.

    Question: If you have a female that makes eggs but doesn't seem to want to drop them, can you use HCG, CPE, or dopamine agonists to help?

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