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Thread: Koi's mouth wont close

  1. #1
    Sansai
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    Dec 2003
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    Malaysia
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    Koi's mouth wont close

    Hi All,

    My 75 cm chagoi amongst others in the pond initially had fungus (white coat) infection. I treated with Methylene blue which has always worked after 2 or 3 doses. As she was also lying on the bottom, I sedated her with transmore (like tea tree oil) and treated her with 3 courses injections of ciprobay (broad spectrum antibiotic) 1st with 3cc, 2nd (to pectoral fin) & 3rd (to end of dorsal fin) with 2cc. She and my other kois continued to be listless. After a break of 3 days and a water change, I treated them with an off the shelf concoction (similar to interpet anti bacteria product) which has Malachite green and formalin, The next day, I noticed the mouth of the chagoi and a smaller showa were wide open and not closing. On the 3rd day , the showa recovered and mouth moving as normal but the Chagois' remains wide open.

    I was advised to check if the gills were infected with any flukes or maggots. I checked both kois but gills are healthy. I tried to close the mouth of the chagoi but it wont close even with firm pressure. Now it is cruising around the pond, i assume this is to get oxygen into the gillls, She cant eat and I am afraid she will watse away if condition persist.

    Can some one help?

    Koi's mouth wont close-chagoi64cm060610.jpg This is her older photo

    TQ & best Rgds
    HWONG

  2. #2
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    I don't know what to tell you to do but there is a disease in goldfish where they can't close their mouth. Maybe try searching on the internet.

    Did you check to see if she has a pebble stuck in her mouth/throat?

  3. #3
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    I have run across what sandy is talking about and removed stome stones from a gill plate on a goldfish. Got the nicest thank-you card from a lil girl who was so relieved. I also ran across a situation with a koi, where a stick was stuck in a gill plate and out thru the mouth. In both cases I put the fish under so they could be handled with no injury.

    The on;ly other thing i could think of is to check to see that both mouth hinges look the same from the outside. I did run across this also with koi and it would run around with it's mouth open and trying to eat
    not very effectively, it would be handled and mouth closed and jaw joint carefully compressed at that seemed to rite it . It did however go back again to open mouth so was thinking might have been some genetic weakness. It eventually healed and did alright.

    best of luck
    Dick Benbow

  4. #4
    Sansai
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    Kntry,

    There isnt any foreign object in mouth.

    Dick,

    The on;ly other thing i could think of is to check to see that both mouth hinges look the same from the outside. I did run across this also with koi and it would run around with it's mouth open and trying to eat
    not very effectively, it would be handled and mouth closed and jaw joint carefully compressed at that seemed to rite it . It did however go back again to open mouth so was thinking might have been some genetic weakness. It eventually healed and did alright.

    best of luck[/QUOTE]

    How do I compress? Press from both sides of cheeks or press bottom n top of mouth?

  5. #5
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwong View Post
    Kntry,

    There isnt any foreign object in mouth.

    Dick,

    The on;ly other thing i could think of is to check to see that both mouth hinges look the same from the outside. I did run across this also with koi and it would run around with it's mouth open and trying to eat
    not very effectively, it would be handled and mouth closed and jaw joint carefully compressed at that seemed to rite it . It did however go back again to open mouth so was thinking might have been some genetic weakness. It eventually healed and did alright.

    best of luck
    How do I compress? Press from both sides of cheeks or press bottom n top of mouth?[/QUOTE]

    Morning, lock jaw in koi is unfortunately very common and most people miss it in smaller fish but its obvious when you are feeding a larger fish that its mouth is frozen open. And often the condition has been there all along but not noticed until the fish is larger. In your case, it could be that the fish had an ulcer in the mouth ( look for scar tissue) or has a broken bone ( the lip/mouth structure) that has not healed correctly due to the constant movement. I have seen this often before and sometimes it can be a toxic reaction to injections and compounds in the water. IF you can close the mouth and see that it is a mechanical problem as the close mouth is tilted or a bone protrudes you have your answer. IF you close it and it is normal in shape or IF you see adhesions ( scar tissue) in the floor of the mouth, it was an ulcer that did the damage. If it is due to drug over dose there is a slight chance it will correct itself ( nerve damage).
    Look to see if the can eat. And so realize that the opening and closing of the mouth as the gills operate is a very important function for getting gases into the bllod stream and toxins out so this is a greater health problem than just eating. JR

  6. #6
    Jumbo jnorth's Avatar
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    I had a large kohaku that had no issues for years that developed this and it did her in. I hope you find a cure for yours as nothing I found worked for mine.
    Koi-Unit
    My personal koi page Updated 7/8/07
    ZNA Potomac Koi Club

  7. #7
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnorth View Post
    I had a large kohaku that had no issues for years that developed this and it did her in. I hope you find a cure for yours as nothing I found worked for mine.
    I think, like dropsy or pop eye, there are many reasons for these sysmptoms from physical injury to infection to some organic or even congenital disease. Some are curable, correct with time or otherwise are lived with. Others are a clear indication of the end. JR

  8. #8
    Sansai
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    JR,
    I suspect I may have been too aggressive with antibiotic dosage. I may have damage the nerves when injecting the pectoral muscles. She is now cruisng near the surface n this is not a good sign I suspect. A aquaculture lecturer advice to increase water temp to help the nervous system. I will try this in an FT 2moro.

    Wish her well people.

  9. #9
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwong View Post
    JR,
    I suspect I may have been too aggressive with antibiotic dosage. I may have damage the nerves when injecting the pectoral muscles. She is now cruisng near the surface n this is not a good sign I suspect. A aquaculture lecturer advice to increase water temp to help the nervous system. I will try this in an FT 2moro.

    Wish her well people.

    also try and see if the fish 'twitches' when still or makes mad dashes when it moves across the surface. These are both signs of nerve damage from injections. Good Luck, JR

  10. #10
    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    also try and see if the fish 'twitches' when still or makes mad dashes when it moves across the surface. These are both signs of nerve damage from injections. Good Luck, JR
    JR,
    Just checked this morning. No ulcer or other pbysical deformities, no twitching, dashing around. I transferred her to QT with 0.2% salt. Should I also add a dose of 3gm per ton OTC?
    Here is her pic with mouth open .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Koi's mouth wont close-20130207_145010-1.jpg  

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