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Thread: Which pond would you choose and why?

  1. #21
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 View Post
    Will, Where did your Opinion come from, and what do you think replaces them ? Thanks
    if it is indeed old technology, I don't think anyone told the bacterai yet?!

    ammonia molecule + oxygen + nitrifier autotroph = NitrIte
    step two= nitrAte

    Nuff said Best, JR

  2. #22
    Tategoi hewhoisatpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 View Post
    Will, Where did your Opinion come from, and what do you think replaces them ? Thanks
    Fair question, Troy. I think square feet of surface area per cubic foot of volume is a fair measure of biological conversion media. There are many that exceed the surface area per unit volume of those two. I'm not saying that they do not have their places where they work best. What I am saying is that, if I'm designing a new pond, technology has given us more efficient and compact bacterial substrate options to work with.

    Ten years ago, K1 was the best thing available, and a great design. My opinion is that there are superior options available now. Not really even an opinion. Yes, they still work, and will do the job. So will my old rotary dial home phone. But there are better options now.
    Will Schultze
    (931) 338-6174



  3. #23
    Tategoi hewhoisatpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    if it is indeed old technology, I don't think anyone told the bacterai yet?!

    ammonia molecule + oxygen + nitrifier autotroph = NitrIte
    step two= nitrAte

    Nuff said Best, JR
    Hey, JR:

    Fuel + oxygen + heat = fire

    There are better ways to make light now


  4. #24
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    I'm a "Moving Bed" guy, are you suggesting Moving Beds are outdated or just the K1 in the Moving Bed ?

  5. #25
    Oyagoi
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 View Post
    I'm a "Moving Bed" guy, are you suggesting Moving Beds are outdated or just the K1 in the Moving Bed ?
    i have not touched my moving bed in 8 years
    and have seen video of the new and improved media stuff having a pressure washer taken after it cause it clogged up

  6. #26
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    It's interesting to see that each person has their own methods they prefer. And that's normal. We tend to stick with things that we are comfortable with and any change is difficult. This applies to everything in Life, so why should filtration methods be any different? It reminds me of my reef store in the early 90s when the 'new' method reef filtration was 'the Berlin method'. I can't tell you ow many discussions I had with customers that just couldn't accept the idea that they really didn't need the bio-balls and in fact the bio-balls were part of the problem. Of course the 'Berlin method' is still here with some modifications- I prefer a jumbo skimmer, wild harvested liverock and a medium sandbed. But hey, each to their own...

    Even being new at this I can tell that I'm hooked on showers with featherock, sieves and sand/gravel filters- it's really the only method that I really know well and therefor I'm comfortable with it. And comfortable recommending it to others. Is the featherock 'outdated'? Probably so. I'm sure Cermedia has much more surface area, but since I was turned on to featherock first it's just kinda what I know. And again, change is difficult. Not gonna spend money AND rework the system just to 'advance' to the latest and greatest media or piece of equipment to hit the market.

    Interestingly enough, if I were to come into the hobby 5-8 years ago it is likely I would be a staunch Bead Filter guy...Or maybe a Nexus guy? We are somewhat a product of what is current in the market at the point that we understand the hobby. AND as we rely on others to teach us in the beginning, the methods they teach is usually the method the pupil continues with. Every now and then a pupil finds a new method and that method is passed down if the pupil becomes a teacher. That's how we progress and not regress or stay idle. The key is to be able to move past that and be open minded about newer methods. Innovation will always continue, but do we always continue with innovation? (Just made that up, good shit huh?) There are definitely more than one way to filter a koi pond...

  7. #27
    Tategoi hewhoisatpeace's Avatar
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    I'm not suggesting that anyone change anything, Troy. In your moving bed, K1 is (I think) the best media. In Tim's showers prefiltered by a 300 micron sieve, feather rock is the perfect answer. Moving beds are great. When I first heard of them, and learned how they work, I was amazed with such a simple yet efficient design.

    Think the next evolutionary step in filtration was showers. Hard to beat showers. What is the next step? I think it's going to be about efficiency and conversion speed, building on what we have, but using new materials and techniques to make the same old conversion happen more rapidly for each gallon of water.

    What I said was that if I were designing a new installation, those older methods have been superceded by other methods that I think are more efficient and more compact. But, didn't someone say it's a system? You can't just replace media without an entire new design to the system, or a decent retrofit. Your system works for you. I'm not satisfied with the performance of conventional koi ponds, though, I want better. I've been working on this water quality thing for a while now, and I think I'm getting it figured out.

    One thing I know, though, is that if your system is improperly designed for your media, the system will fail.

  8. #28
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    If I remember correct, Momotaro was the breeder who got Showers to become the "IT" Filter. Want to guess what is used as his Pre-Filter ?

  9. #29
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post

    Interestingly enough, if I were to come into the hobby 5-8 years ago it is likely I would be a staunch Bead Filter guy.
    If this is true, your pond would have started outdated, I believe Beads were out before I even got in the Hobby, 14 years ago. Some have reused them for "Polishing", but not many as a true Filter.

  10. #30
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 View Post
    If I remember correct, Momotaro was the breeder who got Showers to become the "IT" Filter. Want to guess what is used as his Pre-Filter ?
    Let me guess..........Japanese brushes. Care to share, Troy?

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