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Thread: Which pond would you choose and why?

  1. #51
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    So looking at Jmat as a mechanical filter, I ask myself 'what are the pros and cons'. then I compare my answers to the answers I ask of other mechanical filter methods such as: sieves, moving bed, sand/gravel filter, RDF, Nexus(and similar).
    This is what Troy was referencing. I think it was a typo, with 'static kaldnes' being intended.

  2. #52
    Tategoi hewhoisatpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    This is what Troy was referencing. I think it was a typo, with 'static kaldnes' being intended.
    Wow, good catch Mike and Troy. I had totally missed that, thinking about the J-mat. I apologize, Troy, for thinking you were crazy (guess I did), but I think that Mike makes the correct assumption, that it must have been a typo. Nobody's that silly, except maybe me at times.

  3. #53
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    From JR- "A second mechanical filter type is the combined mechanical/bio design (such as sand filters, bubble bead filters, stone filters, pea gravel filters, etc)."

    I look at moving filter being both mechanical and bio...Am I wrong?

    Here's another good quote from JR- "Even with extensive pre-filtration, J-mat needs periodic cleaning." Which leads me to believe that with less 'pre-filtration' the J-mat will require greater frequency of cleaning...So yes, the J-mat needs 'periodic' cleaning.

  4. #54
    Tategoi powerman's Avatar
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    Tim, J matt isn't usually used as a mechanical filter.. it is most often used in a raceway turned parallel to the water flow, not blocking it, with spacers between the matts.. settlement usually precedes this.. settlement and then brushes works very well ahead of j-matt.. this is similar to what I use on my main pond with my six vortex tanks, three in series on each bottom drain.. vortex, brushes, aerated matting.. I clean the matting once a year.... the brushes once a week.. the empty vortexes somewhere between daily and weekly depending on the season and the feeding rate...
    It isn't hard to clean, just spray or pressure wash in place with the chamber drained, and it doesn't have to be done often because it isn't being used as mechanical filtration... a moving bed however, is self cleaning which is easier but might support some slightly different bacteria..

    I have been using my idea of having different biological types of filtration on each system is because I think that different bacteria prefer to exist in different micro environments.

    so on my main pond, for biological conversion, i have aerated matting, an advantage bead filter, a bakki shower with bacteria house media, a clarity unit (bio barrels and foam fractionation), two up flow sand and gravel filters..

    in my indoor tank, for biological, I have a nexus which has a moving bed and static k-1, an ultima bead filter (which has an open cell media), a shower with feather rock and ceremedia

    on my water wheel pond that I am wrecking out I had, poly strapping, bakki showers, moving bed, a bead filter and a sand and gravel up flow filter, a counter current foam fractionator and I will be replacing this with a system that will also have a couple of moving beds and a shower and a bead filter along with a raceway filter and foam fractionation and sand and gravel filters, too......

    Biological conversion happens if you have pond water, circulation, surface area and aeration... if you build it they will come.. plastic and ceramic and rock and sand and matting.. different surface types it's not just surface area that matters but also surface type.... and whether something is submerged or elevated with water running through it.... and the rate of water flow.. and is the water mechanically cleaned first of heavy solids and hopefully most solids..

    Steve Childers says "it's a system" ... and this is true..
    When you say that j-matt is outdated and that there are better technologies out there, I have to ask better for what? and how are they used in a system?
    If J-matt is used in a raceway with a high turnover rate , using energy efficient axial flow pumps , assuming settlement and brushes ahead of the j-matt, you would be having lots of current in the pond from the high turnover rate, I've seen 20,000 gph for 300 watts quoted... you would have to have aeration in the raceway as well but that would compare pretty favorably to a shower system for less electrical consumption.. but it would take more space.. in those greenhouse systems in Japan and also the ones that I am familiar with at Pan Intercorp, they make the walkways over the filter bays so the space isn't wasted.. and the higher water volume is a plus too..
    so I know j-matt isn't chosen here very often compared to bead filters and showers and moving beds, but it is still a very solid form of filtration and in it's application it's hard to beat.. The Eric filter is designed with J-matt, without getting into that debate on this thread, I'll just say it is based on a hard to beat gravity fed, raceway design and even if J-matt isn't the latest new fangled filtration idea, it isn't a bad one either..

  5. #55
    Tategoi powerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    From JR- "A second mechanical filter type is the combined mechanical/bio design (such as sand filters, bubble bead filters, stone filters, pea gravel filters, etc)."

    I look at moving filter being both mechanical and bio...Am I wrong?

    Here's another good quote from JR- "Even with extensive pre-filtration, J-mat needs periodic cleaning." Which leads me to believe that with less 'pre-filtration' the J-mat will require greater frequency of cleaning...So yes, the J-mat needs 'periodic' cleaning.

    A moving bed isn't mechanical filtration any particles that enter the moving bed will tumble around and be passed through... the k-1 is churning all the time and stuff is not getting trapped.. it is a good biological filter though.. static k-1 works as a mechanical filter but not a moving bed... moving beds are self cleaning ( meaning that any solids going through them get passed on to the next destination be it another filter or the pond...) but static k-1 will trap a surprising amount of stuff but still isn't enough to do an adequate job of fines filtration in my opinion... a nexus has both a static k-1 bed and a moving bed of k-1 so it does some mechanical filtration and biological too... but a moving bed on it's own won't do any mechanical filtration for you

  6. #56
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Excellent posts, Dan!

  7. #57
    Sansai
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    Good job Dan

  8. #58
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Very nice Dan, I appreciate the replies...thank you for clarifying my terminology...

    Must run, back soon...

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