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Thread: Which pond would you choose and why?

  1. #1
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Which pond would you choose and why?

    Here's a little exercise to kill the winter doldrum: You have an option of choosing from one of the two ponds below. Which one would you choose and why? And no, this is not a tricky question.

    Pond Option 1: A pond with total volume of 10,000 gallons, 1/3rd of total volume (~3,300 gallons) is filter volume that consists of vortex/Jmats/fluidized K1 kaldnes & biochips. This pond has a turnover rate (TOR) of once every hour (5,000 gph through the vortex/Jmat/fluidized K1 kaldnes & biochips and 5,000 gph through a set of showers). This pond also has a constant trickle of fresh water of 1,000 gallons/day (10% of total volume displaced per day).

    Pond Option 2: A pond with total volume of 5,000 gallons with exact filtration volume, filtration media, set of showers and constant trickle. Specifically, this pond also has 3,300 gallons of filter volume (2/3rd of total pond volume) consisting of same size vortex/Jmats/fluidized K1 kaldnes & biochips. The pond TOR rate is once every 30 minutes or twice as fast as Pond Option 1 (5,000 gph through vortex/Jmat, fluidized K1 kaldnes & biochips and 5,000 gph through a set of showers). This pond also has a constant trickle of fresh water of 1,000 gallons/day (20% of total volume displaced per day).

    Both of these ponds have 10 females that are 24" average in length. You feed the same amount of 1.5-2% of total body weight per day. Pond water temperature and source water parameters are identical.

    Knowing the parameters above, which pond would you choose?
    Last edited by Lam Nguyen; 02-20-2013 at 01:29 PM.

  2. #2
    Oyagoi
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    this is what i have wondered

    really one question that i would not know answer is with incoming water is at what temp and what effect will say a 20% exchange rate have on pond temperature.

    so say 50 degree water incoming and what can one expect to get pond temperature up to with incoming cold water
    or will pond be heated there for not such a deal but would result in higher heat bill.

  3. #3
    Oyagoi
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    also i know what you are getting at with question but option 2 would only be 1700 gallons in the pond where fish are.

    so are you set on filtartion being 3300 gallons

    or more a compact filter of couple bead idea filters and smaller moving bed or trickle towers instead where more volumne is pond using same 10,000 and 5,000 gallons

  4. #4
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pskorf View Post
    this is what i have wondered

    really one question that i would not know answer is with incoming water is at what temp and what effect will say a 20% exchange rate have on pond temperature.

    so say 50 degree water incoming and what can one expect to get pond temperature up to with incoming cold water
    or will pond be heated there for not such a deal but would result in higher heat bill.
    Paul, let's say incoming water has same exact temp as pond water.

  5. #5
    Oyagoi Lam Nguyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pskorf View Post
    also i know what you are getting at with question but option 2 would only be 1700 gallons in the pond where fish are.

    so are you set on filtartion being 3300 gallons

    or more a compact filter of couple bead idea filters and smaller moving bed or trickle towers instead where more volumne is pond using same 10,000 and 5,000 gallons
    That's correct, Paul. 1,700 gallons of swimming water and 3,300 gallons of filtration.

  6. #6
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    Conversion of ammonia or nitrite happens when molecules hit bacteria. What possible benefit is possible with massive water volumes in the filter chambers? Heck, let's take it to the extreme with 1000 gallons for the fish and 9000 gallons for a mountain of matting.

  7. #7
    Oyagoi
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    i would still love to hear answer to this question but different angle

    say you have the same 10,000 and 5,000 gallon pond but filtration covered the smaller mechanical then moving bed,shower filtration.
    say 500 gallons or less in filtration

    same water flow thru
    which is better?

  8. #8
    Tategoi hewhoisatpeace's Avatar
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    Lam, I'd go with the smaller pond. In my opinion, turnover rate needs to be better than once an hour. I'm also of the opinion that K1 and J mat are old technology now, and that you would need all that filtration to keep your 10 large koi healthy. I think if you place the same fish demand on a system of 10000g, while still using media with that low of a surface area, you might have green water algae problems, too.

  9. #9
    Sansai Si Van Nguyen's Avatar
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    I'd go with Pond 1, the larger pond, because Pond 2 don't make any sense. I don't care how big or how good the filtration volume is, there is no point in raising koi in a 1700 gallon pond. Unless you want to raise bonsai koi.

  10. #10
    Tategoi powerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lam Nguyen View Post
    Here's a little exercise to kill the winter doldrum: You have an option of choosing from one of the two ponds below. Which one would you choose and why? And no, this is not a tricky question.

    Pond Option 1: A pond with total volume of 10,000 gallons, 1/3rd of total volume (~3,300 gallons) is filter volume that consists of vortex/Jmats/fluidized K1 kaldnes & biochips. This pond has a turnover rate (TOR) of once every hour (5,000 gph through the vortex/Jmat/fluidized K1 kaldnes & biochips and 5,000 gph through a set of showers). This pond also has a constant trickle of fresh water of 1,000 gallons/day (10% of total volume displaced per day). Pond Option 2: A pond with total volume of 5,000 gallons with exact filtration volume, filtration media, set of showers and constant trickle. Specifically, this pond also has 3,300 gallons of filter volume (2/3rd of total pond volume) consisting of same size vortex/Jmats/fluidized K1 kaldnes & biochips. The pond TOR rate is once every 30 minutes or twice as fast as Pond Option 1 (5,000 gph through vortex/Jmat, fluidized K1 kaldnes & biochips and 5,000 gph through a set of showers). This pond also has a constant trickle of fresh water of 1,000 gallons/day (20% of total volume displaced per day).

    Both of these ponds have 10 females that are 24" average in length. You feed the same amount of 1.5-2% of total body weight per day. Pond water temperature and source water parameters are identical.

    Knowing the parameters above, which pond would you choose?
    It depends on what you want to accomplish... I think you actually would get more growth in the smaller pond because of the higher turnover rate and current and the same amount of flow through water would be twice the water change...but in a 5,000 gallon system with 3300 of it in the filters you have not enough pond left... so I wouldn't want to see 10 maturing females in a pond of 1700 gallons... so I'd have to go with the larger one... how about if you do the larger one but increase the turnover rate by using an axial flow pump that pushes lots of water with less electricity.. then you could still have your shower circuit with the 5000 gph and run the raceway with 10,000 gph... you would be happier ,I suspect and still be able to enjoy good results...
    I've seen small systems used to basically force grow koi if that is what you are after but I think the aesthetics of the pond is an important part of the hobby and deciding what you want to see is part of that .. the current in a pond by a high turnover rate will give you better growth results than a slower turnover rate.. but air in the system will help immensely as well...
    I'm assuming you want to heat the pond.. so the cost of doing that is also a factor, but knowing that up front and insulating will lower that quite a bit...

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