Home | About Us | Contact Us


Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine straight from Japan
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: Some Thoughts, Please, On A Mud-Pond Opportunity

  1. #1
    Sansai almostgeorgia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Amelia Island, FL
    Posts
    286

    Some Thoughts, Please, On A Mud-Pond Opportunity

    I'd like to get some input from some of the mud-ponders on this forum, if I could please, regarding an intriguing opportunity I've been presented. Here's the scenario:

    A friend has an artesian well-fed pond on their property that was originally stocked with a handful of pond grade koi 3 years ago. The population has expanded greatly, and we are going to drain the pond and remove them later this year. We've been discussing the possibility of restocking with a few higher grade koi just to see what would happen in 1 or two years. The pond parameters are as follows:

    1) The pond is at least 20 feet across, 50 feet long, and runs from 3.5 to 6 feet in depth. I estimate it very conservatively at 30,000 gal.

    2) It is deep artesian well fed, with a constant turnover rate of about 2% a day. This can be adjusted and the pond almost completely drained in a few days via a pipe for harvesting purposes.

    3) The water tests out at 7.6 PH, moderate KH and GH, and quite 'clean' with no nitrates/nitrates or ammonia, and a constant temp of 72 degrees.

    4) The pond has a mixed sand/clay bottom with no appreciable aquatic vegetation. The water is relatively clear, with visibility at last 3 feet down. And to our knowledge no native fish are in the pond as well. If so, they could easily be removed.

    A fellow koi-kichi and I are considering re-starting this pond off by removing ALL the fish life in it, and seeding it with a dozen or so gosanke tosai, as nice as our wallets will 'tolerate', and see what happens. Living where we do, predatory birds are a concern, but the residents tell us they rarely see them and the fairly steep sides of the pond discourage 'wading' by these marauders. We think the depth might discourage that as well and there is a large dock we've noticed the koi often hang under for shade and protection. We would also be feeding the fish several times a day with as high a grade of koi pellets as our overly-ambitious budget permits. Probably via auto-feeder as well.

    So what are we missing here? Would we be better off with putting nisai in the pond, or even using it as a 'finishing step' for larger koi? Would we need to consider adding aeration? Would we need to be concerned about any latent diseases left in the pond by the recently removed pond-grade koi? I should add we are NOT interested in breeding koi, just growing out some nice show-fish!

    Thanks for any comments, we consider all criticisms and input as a 'gift'.

  2. #2
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,112
    Add air to the water, and I'd buy less female Nisai over Tosai that will probably be a mix of sexes. The Koi are going to get parasites being in a natural pond, so getting them from the other Koi wouldn't be a worry.

  3. #3
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,653
    I would go with the better grade tosai and see how that works out before spending big bucks on higher grade nisai.

  4. #4
    MCA
    MCA is offline
    Honmei MCA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    2,574
    Is feeding manual or automated? A nice broadcast feeder is not inexpensive.

    be prepared to fence it and string monofilament overhead to keep out predators.

  5. #5
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Davenport, Oklahoma
    Posts
    6,726
    I don't mean to advertise (I don't sell these or anything else for that matter), but there are several aeration units like this out there to choose from and for a pond like the one you are talking about it could be worth a look.

    HOW TO CLEAN YOUR POND - Outdoor Water Solutions - YouTube

    Being spring fed your overall water quality shouldn't be an issue, but the added water movement from an aeration source will be a definite plus for O2 saturation levels. As far as the age of the Koi goes... tough call. If you and your buddies have a good enough eye to pick high quality frames and skin quality going with Tosai might be a relatively inexpensive way to do your own test run. Solid growth and well conditioned skin after year one would answer your real "is this the right pond" question. So-so patterns are only worth a so-so price, but if the bodies and skin are quality they can teach you something.

    If you go with Nissai don't hit the bargain bin. Low quality won't teach you anything, a Nissai worth buying needs a decent pattern, and solid frames and high quality skin are still an absolute must if you are going to have a valid measure of "success or failure".
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  6. #6
    Sansai almostgeorgia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Amelia Island, FL
    Posts
    286
    'Thank you' to all the above folks for taking the time to comment on this project I'm considering. This is precisely the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I'd like to think we could pick out a few good nisai with great body confirmation and skin, but I have to be realistic and remember my buddy and I are still fairly new to the hobby, and the high-grade fish we've had the opportunity to actually select and purchase number only in the couple of dozens. I'm thinking if we go forward with this experiment we will work with a handful of the best tosai we can afford and see what happens. I'm still a bit concerned about predation, and blocking off or 'netting' the pond is not an option for us. I have not checked the DO, and being a deep well, I realize that might be a growth inhibiting factor so an aerator is a good idea. We already have access to the auto-feeder.

    If we go forward with the project I'll be sure to report back our progress and results --- with photos. It could be a fun personal learning experience about one aspect of koi-keeping I've always been fascinated with.

    Thank you all again!

  7. #7
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128
    Troy gave a great suggestion. He has had quite a lot of experience using a mudpond for summering koi. Kentucky is not North Florida, but the basics are the same even if the predators and temperatures differ. Search out his Kentucky Mud Pond threads on this board and Koi Shack.

    BTW, I do not use an auto-feeder on my home pond because there are too many critters even though I am the city... racoons, 'possums, armadillos, tree rats, squirrels... the list goes on. North of Orlando, black bears visit garbage bins on their nightly rounds. Using an auto-feeder is going to save a lot of work/travel. But, try to make it as critter-proof as possible. Also, consider whether floating pellets close to the pond edge increase the risk from herons and the like.

  8. #8
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,112
    You can use a 30gal. plastic tote to cover the auto feeder, just cut out one side. If you add a block or something heavy you'll be fine. Push the front edge of the tote toward the dock edge and nothing will get to the food, I've done this for years. We started using a sinking food last year because of the thought of animals. But if you use a floating food, add a feeding ring with PVC and most of the food won't get to the ponds edge.
    rekoil10000 likes this.

  9. #9
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,653
    Quote Originally Posted by almostgeorgia View Post
    'Thank you' to all the above folks for taking the time to comment on this project I'm considering. This is precisely the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I'd like to think we could pick out a few good nisai with great body confirmation and skin, but I have to be realistic and remember my buddy and I are still fairly new to the hobby, and the high-grade fish we've had the opportunity to actually select and purchase number only in the couple of dozens. I'm thinking if we go forward with this experiment we will work with a handful of the best tosai we can afford and see what happens. I'm still a bit concerned about predation, and blocking off or 'netting' the pond is not an option for us. I have not checked the DO, and being a deep well, I realize that might be a growth inhibiting factor so an aerator is a good idea. We already have access to the auto-feeder.
    If we go forward with the project I'll be sure to report back our progress and results --- with photos. It could be a fun personal learning experience about one aspect of koi-keeping I've always been fascinated with.
    Thank you all again!
    Expect the unexpected. I would be worried about the two-legged predators.


  10. #10
    Nisai
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Orange Park, Florida, U.S.A
    Posts
    81

    Mud-Pond Opportunity

    "The fairly steep sides of the pond discourage 'wading' by these marauders. We think the depth might discourage that as well."

    Don't let the "steep sides" or the overall depth of any pond in NE Florida fool you. Unless you keep something like a guard dog on site, you definitely need extensive predator protection, such as fences or monofilament lines. Examples: A great blue heron's method of attack is to land on the ground near the pond, walk to any edge of the water and regurgitate whatever it has in its craw into the water. Koi, being the greedy feeders that they are, are all too eager to get within "striking distance" and the heron will "spear" the fish, eat the small ones and leave the larger ones dead or mortally wounded on the ground. The steepness of the sides and depth of the water make absolutely no difference, if the heron is able to get to the edge of the water. (I have recently had a modified "baby fence" installed near all edges of my pond. So far, so good.) A smaller bird, such as a kingfisher, will sit on any high point and dive into the water for the smaller fish. A friend I know, who once lost most of the result of a whole season's spawning, finally had success in stopping a kingfisher by securing a mouse or rat trap on the top of a nearby tall pole.
    Anyway, it sounds like an exciting endeavor. Good luck!

    S. Stone

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-09-2014, 09:16 AM
  2. Small Mud Pond --> What type of mud ?
    By kevhuynh in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02-10-2013, 12:28 AM
  3. Opportunity not to be missed.
    By DaveB in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-04-2012, 03:28 PM
  4. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-31-2007, 07:43 PM
  5. Small Mud Pond --> What type of mud ?
    By kevhuynh in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-13-2005, 02:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Articles - Sitemap - FAQs and Rules

KB Footer Graphic
Straight from Japan... For the serious hobbyist!
All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com