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Thread: Goshiki vs Gosanke for best in size where is the reality.......................

  1. #11
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 View Post
    Tim, I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Dainichi has something to do with that Goshiki. I seem to remember seeing her in a video swimming around with a bunch of Gosanke at one of their greenhouses. Maybe someone would know if they are breeding Goshiki ?

    Yes, I remember that video as well. Bram was filming Shigeru about this very Goshiki...Shigeru was talking that this was the farm's #1 Goshiki and address the points as to why...I didn't save the video so maybe I'll find it and post it here at some point...More to the story- The most expensive Koi on the Dainichi Auction: a Goshiki! | KoiQuestion

  2. #12
    Oyagoi HEADACHE6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    Yes, I remember that video as well. Bram was filming Shigeru about this very Goshiki...Shigeru was talking that this was the farm's #1 Goshiki and address the points as to why...I didn't save the video so maybe I'll find it and post it here at some point...More to the story- The most expensive Koi on the Dainichi Auction: a Goshiki! | KoiQuestion
    Nice Find, but it says the breeder is Hiroi.

  3. #13
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEADACHE6 View Post
    Mark Gardner on his Blog, suggest or wonders if this isn't the Best Goshiki ever produced. I believe the Koi was in the 63cm range in size. While it may be the photo, would the same frame on a Gosanke cut it at this size ? Would the same pattern cut it at this size ?
    If it was judged as Gosanke? No and No. It would probably come up short even if it was judged as Utsurimono on those same grounds...but it is neither Gosanke nor Utsurimono is it?

    What it does bring is a level of refinement to the Goshiki "Atmosphere" that is striking and bold, but still with a soft subtlety that is unique to Goshiki.
    The soft texture of the persimmon beni and the dark clouds of sumi offer a different picture than Gosanke, and that is what makes a really good one a treat to see and study. The frame could be stronger, but the pattern is more than acceptable for a Goshiki and the quality of the skin appears to be pretty top rate. This one brings patterning that is more showa/utsurimono style than Kohaku or Sanke, but not completely so.

    "If" it was up against any of the big 3 with equal levels of refinement of skin, color, and pattern interest the frame would likely become the deciding factor. If any of those 3 "equalizers" was lacking in the Gosanke competitors...this could come out on top.
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  4. #14
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    As a variety is refined, large improvements can occur at the start because there is much opportunity to do better. Then, improvements become incremental. The very best gosanke today are amazingly improved over what was the best 15 years ago, but from year to year, the improvements are not so amazing.

    With Goshiki, I have to ask: Which Goshiki? There have to be at least 5 different variations on the theme, and none breed true as far as I am aware, with those coming close to breeding true being rather run-of-the-mill. The best seem to be crosses with a Kohaku parent. The Kuro Goshiki extolled by Mark is certainly a grand fish at her current size, with such lustre to the sumi. The body, however, is nothing special, as is so often true of Kuro Goshiki, IMO. For the best bodies, the white ground obtained from Kohaku seems to give better odds, although the appearance of sumi or blue scales within the shiroji may not be even, nor predictably dependable. Goshiki has a long way to go, but I think we can see it is realistic to believe that it can be improved to a level commensurate with Shiro Utsuri of today.... although the Shiro Utsuri of tomorrow will likely be far ahead in the race toward perfection.

  5. #15
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    For any variety, It gets to a point where there is a maximum compounding of desirable traits. The only advancement is from the introduction of new genes. Without a new mutation, there gets a point where the apex is reached and nothing more can be added to the canvas.

    Gosanke in the lower to mid range sizes might well be at their peak today and further advancement may well be limited to current gene pool. The benifet for Goshiki is this ceiling and Gosanke may well struggle to push through it. Goshiki may have reached or be near the same point
    .

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