Home | About Us | Contact Us


Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine straight from Japan
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 29
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: The bugs are bad this year

  1. #11
    Jumbo jnorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    3,159
    Quote Originally Posted by jnorth View Post
    So dealers are doing a bad job at QT'ing this year? Or are all these folks maybe buying from the same dealer? The koi dealer is responsible for QT'ing and eradicating any bugs on the koi they are selling no matter where they come from. Some of the problems could also be coincidence. Parasite infestations sometimes take a while to really ramp up and last month was still fairly early in the season and still in the danger zone for many areas so if they just happened to add a koi while parasites were still building up...
    Hmm I just reread what I wrote and it might sound a bit confrontational?? Not meant to be. I'm just trying to figure out where people are thinking the problem is.
    Koi-Unit
    My personal koi page Updated 7/8/07
    ZNA Potomac Koi Club

  2. #12
    MCA
    MCA is offline
    Honmei MCA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    2,574
    IMHO, it is the owner that spends money on the pond, filtration, water, electricity......and all for the koi that also cost money. It is always the owner obligation to protect the investment. No passing the buck to dealers, pond professionals, or others. If the owner is not willing or able to QT, diagnose, and treat.....perhaps they should rethink the hobby. No one will care more about your investments than you do.

    OK, I pass the soap box. Next.

  3. #13
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    754
    I don't think there is ever 'eradication'... I do think there is population control- meaning there are less individuals then previously. The thought of QTing to eradicate a specific set of bacteria, virus, parasites, etc... is more fantasy more than reality. In reality, we have different strains of diseases that are constantly morphing into something stronger and more resistant to our efforts. We can't escape from this endless battle. Not only that, but there is never complete eradication. If there was complete eradication, we wouldn't need to QT would we??? The breeder would treat and it'd be end of story. But diseases are never destroyed that easily. I can assure that the disease is still present, it is just low numbers. So what really happens is that we put our fish in QT and monitor them. If they are healthy, eating and active we move em into the main pond. It is then that the actual test begins. Now each koi is exposed to the other's bacteria, virus, parasite, etc.... Are each group prepared??? Nope. The koi will have to fend off these new invaders. The new koi share what it has with the established koi sharing what they have. It's a big sharefest of diseases! Only the strong survive.

  4. #14
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    1,448
    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    IMHO, it is the owner that spends money on the pond, filtration, water, electricity......and all for the koi that also cost money. It is always the owner obligation to protect the investment. No passing the buck to dealers, pond professionals, or others. If the owner is not willing or able to QT, diagnose, and treat.....perhaps they should rethink the hobby. No one will care more about your investments than you do.

    OK, I pass the soap box. Next.
    You seem to be selling absolution for dealers. Do you charge by the job or by the hour?

  5. #15
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    1,448
    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    I don't think there is ever 'eradication'... I do think there is population control- meaning there are less individuals then previously. The thought of QTing to eradicate a specific set of bacteria, virus, parasites, etc... is more fantasy more than reality. In reality, we have different strains of diseases that are constantly morphing into something stronger and more resistant to our efforts. We can't escape from this endless battle. Not only that, but there is never complete eradication. If there was complete eradication, we wouldn't need to QT would we??? The breeder would treat and it'd be end of story. But diseases are never destroyed that easily. I can assure that the disease is still present, it is just low numbers. So what really happens is that we put our fish in QT and monitor them. If they are healthy, eating and active we move em into the main pond. It is then that the actual test begins. Now each koi is exposed to the other's bacteria, virus, parasite, etc.... Are each group prepared??? Nope. The koi will have to fend off these new invaders. The new koi share what it has with the established koi sharing what they have. It's a big sharefest of diseases! Only the strong survive.
    I disagree. If you pick up a few ticks while walking in the high grass does that mean they're with you for life?

  6. #16
    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    754
    Quote Originally Posted by dizzyfish View Post
    I disagree. If you pick up a few ticks while walking in the high grass does that mean they're with you for life?
    Ticks? Really? No my friend, try removing ALL the bacteria off of your tongue. Won't happen. Now, try removing all the bacteria from your gut. Won't happen. Now, try removing all the the little bugs and mites from your skin and scalp. Won't happen. Ticks? Easy to kill and rid of forever. Bad example. So, what else ya got? Do you really think complete and total eradication is possible??? How do you separate the good bacteria from the bad bacteria??? How do fish even get sick then??? Treat once and done, right???

  7. #17
    Jumbo jnorth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    3,159
    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    Ticks? Really? No my friend, try removing ALL the bacteria off of your tongue. Won't happen. Now, try removing all the bacteria from your gut. Won't happen. Now, try removing all the the little bugs and mites from your skin and scalp. Won't happen. Ticks? Easy to kill and rid of forever. Bad example. So, what else ya got? Do you really think complete and total eradication is possible??? How do you separate the good bacteria from the bad bacteria??? How do fish even get sick then??? Treat once and done, right???
    ...and to think I thought I sounded confrontational lol .
    Koi-Unit
    My personal koi page Updated 7/8/07
    ZNA Potomac Koi Club

  8. #18
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Orlando, Florida
    Posts
    11,128
    I do not think anyone would disagree with the proposition that for self-protection, the hobbyist-consumer has to take responsibility to assure that new fish do not bring in disease or parasites, or live with the consequences. Nonetheless, every dealer has a responsibility to sell healthy fish. If they do not, they deserve the consequences of customers not returning. No dealer is going to succeed in being parasite-free all the time, but the most attentive ones strive to reach that goal. Still, there will always be a risk. The hobbyist has to protect himself or be ready to deal with it.

    The problem for me is that I cannot quarantine a large fish. When I received two 80+cm koi earlier this year, they went straight into the pond. I took the risk. I had treatments on hand if needed. Fortunately, they were not needed. That is a tribute to those who handled the fish for shipment, not to my risk-taking.

    If I was a dealer, with fish coming in from multiple sources, and going out all the time, I think I would adopt a routine of prophylactic treatments. I would want my customers coming back. The risk that an individual koi would be harmed by the treatment on some occasion would be outweighed by gaining customer satisfaction with the products I sold.

  9. #19
    Oyagoi dizzyfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    1,448
    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    Ticks? Really? No my friend, try removing ALL the bacteria off of your tongue. Won't happen. Now, try removing all the bacteria from your gut. Won't happen. Now, try removing all the the little bugs and mites from your skin and scalp. Won't happen. Ticks? Easy to kill and rid of forever. Bad example. So, what else ya got? Do you really think complete and total eradication is possible??? How do you separate the good bacteria from the bad bacteria??? How do fish even get sick then??? Treat once and done, right???
    You seem to be comparing what happens in a river or a lake with a closed system. Protozoan parasites like costia and also flukes can be eradicated from koi and also killed out of closed system. How do I know this? Because I took Dr. John Gratzek's course on Fish Health at the University of Georgia Veterinary School back in 1986 and that is what he taught us. Bacteria and viruses are another story but were not the subject of this thread. It may well be that some people do have protozoan parasites and flukes present in perpetuity, and it is certainly possible for parasites to survive in a reef tank. But it doesn't have to be that way.

  10. #20
    MCA
    MCA is offline
    Honmei MCA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    2,574
    Quote Originally Posted by dizzyfish View Post
    You seem to be selling absolution for dealers. Do you charge by the job or by the hour?

    Absolution is forgiveness for a violation of law (religious or civil). There are no laws or contracts requiring dealers to QT, diagnose, and treat before a sale. Therefore no absolution needed.

    If anyone needs absolution it is the pond owner who does not QT, scrape and scope, and perform treatment protocols as as needed. It is always the pond owner's responsibility to protect animals in his keeping. As the sign used to say on President Truman's desk.....The Buck Stops Here.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. String Algae & 'Bottled Bugs'
    By MikeM in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-25-2012, 10:10 AM
  2. green and black bugs
    By 300wby in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-11-2011, 11:02 PM
  3. bad news
    By chinadna in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 06-27-2008, 06:04 PM
  4. When a koi goes bad
    By jnorth in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-04-2007, 08:01 PM
  5. Filter bugs
    By aldonna in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-07-2004, 03:28 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Articles - Sitemap - FAQs and Rules

KB Footer Graphic
Straight from Japan... For the serious hobbyist!
All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com